The Labour Government

[Brewster's millions]

This short video sums up pretty well why Europe, and the UK in particular, are in such a depressing mess...

Because of chancers and know nothings like Richard Murphy making videos like this? Completely agree.

 

[Brewster's millions]

I’m not defending the current system. I’ve already said it was implemented in a ham fisted manner. Linking it to CT band will lead to all sorts of anomalies. It needs to be linked to income with a line drawn in a different place than the current system. Makes much more sense than arbitrarily linking it to a measure that might be just a general indication of wealth and affordability rather than something that would be unarguable.

The problem here, as is well documented, is the historically low rate of applications for pension credit and then the more recent issues around processing these claims.

Again, these problems are well known, and so Reeves and Co can’t claim ignorance of them when they made the decision to remove the WFA. The Council Tax banding idea has its drawbacks, but at least it would have been implemented prior to the winter weather.

Of course they could simply have delayed the withdrawal of the WFA for a year, and many of these issues and the opposition to it would have been greatly reduced. As it is they’ve managed to hobble their administration in its infancy, and all for a cost saving which is essentially a rounding error in the grand scheme of things.

 

[BayernMan]

 

[The perfect fumble]

Because of chancers and know nothings like Richard Murphy making videos like this? Completely agree.

You really do cut your nose off to spite your face.

You don't have to agree with Richard Murphy to appreciate that without a viable left, there is no opposition to the extreme right. Fascists have always understood that the left must be defeated first, once that is accomplished, the centre right will fall in line.

You're centre right, pithy little posts like this might make you feel warm and fuzzy, but that's because your politics is in the shitter, it's just piss running down your legs. A weak centre right's solution to countering the extreme right is, and always has been, to ape them, the centre right has never defeated its extremist elements in such circumstances, it has always accommodated them, or succumbed to them, and that's what the Tories are doing now, they're in the shitter, so like a moth to a flame, they're driven to out Reform Reform.

Without a robust left, people faced with neoliberal Tweedledee and neoliberal Tweedledum flock to the authoritarian right wing populist with all the answers.

More fool you if you can't see that.

 

[BrianW]

It was the conservatives in Germany who put Adolf in power as they preferred him to the Left. They learned their error PDQ, but it was too late once he had unlimited power.

The problem is, given a straight choice between Nazis and the likes of Corbyn, most people who think themselves centre-right would choose the Nazis. It's a real blind spot with them. But you see, Nazis play on a lot of stuff they like: Flag waving. 'Patriotism', Nationalism, Militarism and crushing the unions. So it makes a certain sense.

At least in the 1930s people had the excuse that they had no idea what the far-right would do in power.

 

[The perfect fumble]

It was the conservatives in Germany who put Adolf in power as they preferred him to the Left. They learned their error PDQ, but it was too late once he had unlimited power.

The problem is, given a straight choice between Nazis and the likes of Corbyn, most people who think themselves centre-right would choose the Nazis. It's a real blind spot with them. But you see, Nazis play on a lot of stuff they like: Flag waving. 'Patriotism', Nationalism, Militarism and crushing the unions. So it makes a certain sense.

At least in the 1930s people had the excuse that they had no idea what the far-right would do in power.

That doesn't add up

The right wing surge in the UK didn't take place on Corbyn's watch. If Reform grow stronger it won't be because of the emergence of a Corbyn like figure. The Tories are veering right, but not because they're protecting us from socialism

The left don't need to win, in fact not winning is what the left do, what they do do is anchor politics, without a viable left, the electorate, when faced with hard times and no answers from the establishment parties, where are they gonna go? I'll tell you, they're gonna go far right, and that's what they're doing all over Europe, not to mention the USA.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

It was the conservatives in Germany who put Adolf in power as they preferred him to the Left. They learned their error PDQ, but it was too late once he had unlimited power.

The problem is, given a straight choice between Nazis and the likes of Corbyn, most people who think themselves centre-right would choose the Nazis. It's a real blind spot with them. But you see, Nazis play on a lot of stuff they like: Flag waving. 'Patriotism', Nationalism, Militarism and crushing the unions. So it makes a certain sense.

At least in the 1930s people had the excuse that they had no idea what the far-right would do in power.

Is that what you actually think the electorate in the UK have a choice of, Corbyn or Nazis??

 

[TinFoilHat]

I'm sure Elon will help by giving Nigel more ammo to stoke hate.

 

[BrianW]

Is that what you actually think the electorate in the UK have a choice of, Corbyn or Nazis??

No.

I'm saying that history shows that given that choice the right in politics tend to opt for fascism.

That's why, in present circumstances, it's good that we have a fairly centrist government. Although almost every day, I see people calling Starmer a communist.

It's that kind of purblind nonsense we have to be on guard against. Starmer has 1001 faults, but communist he ain't and nor is his government. Who is motivating this absurd pretence?

 

[BrianW]

That doesn't add up

The right wing surge in the UK didn't take place on Corbyn's watch. If Reform grow stronger it won't be because of the emergence of a Corbyn like figure. The Tories are veering right, but not because they're protecting us from socialism

The left don't need to win, in fact not winning is what the left do, what they do do is anchor politics, without a viable left, the electorate, when faced with hard times and no answers from the establishment parties, where are they gonna go? I'll tell you, they're gonna go far right, and that's what they're doing all over Europe, not to mention the USA.

People go far right out of despair. The far right always has 'answers'. It claims it can put everything 'right'. It's an attractive message for non-thinkers. The truth is they have no answers. Or rather, that their 'answer' is to foment hatred and persecution while in the background the uber-rich get uber-richer. I can understand people being taken in by this shit in the 1930s. They had no example before them.

We do, and it's unforgivable to fall for the same old con.

 

[jrb]

How much longer can Starmer and Reeves keep on blaming the Tories?

Will either of them take any responsibility for creating this current mess since Labour won the general election?

One of the UK's leading business groups, the CBI, said its latest company survey suggested "the economy is headed for the worst of all worlds".

Chancellor Rachel Reeves said the challenge to fix the economy "after 15 years of neglect is huge", while shadow chancellor Mel Stride said Monday's figures showed "growth has tanked on Labour's watch".

The revised figure will be a blow to the government which has made boosting the economy its top priority.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c78631e4gygo

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

No.

I'm saying that history shows that given that choice the right in politics tend to opt for fascism.

That's why, in present circumstances, it's good that we have a fairly centrist government. Although almost every day, I see people calling Starmer a communist.

It's that kind of purblind nonsense we have to be on guard against. Starmer has 1001 faults, but communist he ain't and nor is his government. Who is motivating this absurd pretence?

OK understood, FWIW I agree the UK population generally goes for middle of the road politics. I don't really see the UK ever voting for an extreme right wing fascist or extreme left wing government. History tells us its just not what we do.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

People go far right out of despair. The far right always has 'answers'. It claims it can put everything 'right'. It's an attractive message for non-thinkers. The truth is they have no answers. Or rather, that their 'answer' is to foment hatred and persecution while in the background the uber-rich get uber-richer. I can understand people being taken in by this shit in the 1930s. They had no example before them.

We do, and it's unforgivable to fall for the same old con.

Out of interest what do you class as being far right in the UK. Is the far right the rioters this August? Is it voting for Reform? is it backing Kemi Bardenochs Conservatism? is it just voting for Brexit. Is it just wanting to slow the rate of immigration?

 

[inbetween]

How much longer can Starmer and Reeves keep on blaming the Tories?

Will either of them take any responsibility for creating this current mess since Labour won the general election?

One of the UK's leading business groups, the CBI, said its latest company survey suggested "the economy is headed for the worst of all worlds".

Chancellor Rachel Reeves said the challenge to fix the economy "after 15 years of neglect is huge", while shadow chancellor Mel Stride said Monday's figures showed "growth has tanked on Labour's watch".

The revised figure will be a blow to the government which has made boosting the economy its top priority.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c78631e4gygo

I haven't been a fan of Labour but I don't see how this is their fault. You only have to look at the majority of Europe to see that the western economy is on the brink of recession so why would we be immune? The idea that Labour, the Tories or anybody else could somehow tinker us out of this is fantasy.

The biggest opportunites for growth unfortunately lie elsewhere beyond Europe and that's where things get murky because those countries are increasingly aligning to the likes of China due to the huge Chinese inward investment. It really does depend upon whether we see ourselves as a global country or a western country?

At the moment our policy is that of a western country which aligns to western interests above all else, even if it means shooting ourselves in the foot. Aligning our economy to the west is why growth is non-existent, because there is no growth in Europe. Germany just for example is our biggest European trade partner and it hasn't seen any growth whatsoever for nearly 2 years.

So are we going to trade more with China at a time when one of China's allies is at war with somebody we're directly arming? It's bound to struggle. There is a growing argument now that resolving the conflict in Ukraine instead of arming Ukraine must become a priority.

Beyond that we do not control the necessary levers and that goes completely if US isolationism leaves Europe alone. We're in for a really tough time if Europe is left alone in the world whilst the US goes its own way under Trump and the axis of China/Russia etc continues to capture the key growth opportunities in Africa, India and South America.

 

[Kompany Car]

People go far right out of despair. The far right always has 'answers'. It claims it can put everything 'right'. It's an attractive message for non-thinkers. The truth is they have no answers. Or rather, that their 'answer' is to foment hatred and persecution while in the background the uber-rich get uber-richer. I can understand people being taken in by this shit in the 1930s. They had no example before them.

We do, and it's unforgivable to fall for the same old con.

You could equally argue that its the fault of politicians both past and present that have allowed the country to be in a state where people see the far right as a solution.

The seeds of the far right have been around for years but allowing corporations to ride roughshod over laws, failing to manage the impact of globalization and overseeing a general fall in living standards over the last 2 decades, provides the soil and water for the seeds of the far right to grow.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

I haven't been a fan of Labour but I don't see how this is their fault. You only have to look at the majority of Europe to see that the western economy is on the brink of recession so why would we be immune? The idea that Labour, the Tories or anybody else could somehow tinker us out of this is fantasy.

The biggest opportunites for growth unfortunately lie elsewhere beyond Europe and that's where things get murky because those countries are increasingly aligning to the likes of China due to the huge Chinese inward investment. It really does depend upon whether we see ourselves as a global country or a western country?

At the moment our policy is that of a western country which aligns to western interests above all else, even if it means shooting ourselves in the foot. Aligning our economy to the west is why growth is non-existent, because there is no growth in Europe. Germany just for example is our biggest European trade partner and it hasn't seen any growth whatsoever for nearly 2 years.

So are we going to trade more with China at a time when one of China's allies is at war with somebody we're directly arming? It's bound to struggle. There is a growing argument now that resolving the conflict in Ukraine instead of arming Ukraine must become a priority.

Beyond that we do not control the necessary levers and that goes completely if US isolationism leaves Europe alone. We're in for a really tough time if Europe is left alone in the world whilst the US goes its own way under Trump and the axis of China/Russia etc continues to capture the key growth opportunities in Africa, India and South America.

Well our economy was in a healthier position than Germany and France, albeit not by much. The short term issues, since the election is that the government talked the economy down too much. Then Reeves has announced a very tax heavy budget, the majority of which haven't been phased in. Therefore this has shaken the confidence of business's and investors in the UK.n

 

[TinFoilHat]

How much longer can Starmer and Reeves keep on blaming the Tories?

Will either of them take any responsibility for creating this current mess since Labour won the general election?

One of the UK's leading business groups, the CBI, said its latest company survey suggested "the economy is headed for the worst of all worlds".

Chancellor Rachel Reeves said the challenge to fix the economy "after 15 years of neglect is huge", while shadow chancellor Mel Stride said Monday's figures showed "growth has tanked on Labour's watch".

The revised figure will be a blow to the government which has made boosting the economy its top priority.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c78631e4gygo

They are cunts that got us into this mess and rode off into the sunset with our cash in their bank accounts.

I'd be holding an inquiry and Jailing any fucker who's profited from this economic clusterfuck.

 

[i kne albert davy]

They are cunts that got us into this mess and rode off into the sunset with our cash in their bank accounts.

I'd be holding an inquiry and Jailing any fucker who's profited from this economic clusterfuck.

Oh God that's me locked up then, mind I have worked for it and being a centrist Labour voter so far these have been pretty useless tax on business will limit pay rises next year and a Labour party taking money off pensioners ? if it had been the Tory's I'd be going off my box so think there's every right when these have done it.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

You could equally argue that its the fault of politicians both past and present that have allowed the country to be in a state where people see the far right as a solution.

The seeds of the far right have been around for years but allowing corporations to ride roughshod over laws, failing to manage the impact of globalization and overseeing a general fall in living standards over the last 2 decades, provides the soil and water for the seeds of the far right to grow.

You haven't included unfettered immigration in your causes for the rise of the right, do you not consider this to be a factor?

 

[Kompany Car]

You haven't included unfettered immigration in your causes for the rise of the right, do you not consider this to be a factor?

If everyone was doing fine and had a decent standard of living, most people wouldn't bat an eyelid to immigration.