The Labour Government

hilts said:
Yes the ones that get by on less than their European counter parts, yes those ones.

I think you're a good poster but this let them eat cake attitude is unbecoming of some on here. Not sure any party deserves that kind of blind loyalty on a football forum.
Im certain Starmer is not gonna lose any election because a couple of city fans said in a forum yeah I would have taken the money from elsewhere
None of our politicians deserve the sacrifice of selling a bit of ones soul just bbecause you voted for them.
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No blind loyalty here (although I am sat in opticians right now) Just pointing out that those 2 groups have had a raise. A raise which I fully agree with.
 
mancityvstoke said:
You don't want pensioners a rise in annual pension rates to pay for extra Gas, Electricity, Water Rates (26% rise in bills) and council tax? Fuckin ell mate. Try living on just over £200 a week and see how you manage.

The national living wage is £12.21 an hour .....40 hour week? That's £488 a week. That's a reasonable wage to live on.
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Yes I do
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
That's because there are a lot of people who think and say they are left wing or socialist, but actually are nothing of the sort.
It's a horrible sort of neo liberal mindset that is actually not very liberal and Starmer is perfect for them.
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To me, people who are centrist range from Third Way Blairite to One Nation Conservative which aren't actually that far apart. Starmer has positioned himself right there. That's why Thatcherite Tories, the far right (Farage and his ilk), traditional socialists and the far left can't stand him. He's certainly far from being a neoliberal which is a better description of today's Tories.
 
west didsblue said:
To me, people who are centrist range from Third Way Blairite to One Nation Conservative which aren't actually that far apart. Starmer has positioned himself right there. That's why Thatcherite Tories, the far right (Farage and his ilk), traditional socialists and the far left can't stand him. He's certainly far from being a neoliberal which is a better description of today's Tories.
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I don't think he fits any particular tag like many modern politicians, unless changing direction in whatever way suits his ambition is a tag.

Starmer Johnson Farage are all grifters to use a popular bluemoon phrase.
 
www.gov.uk

Phasing out the sale of new petrol and diesel cars from 2030 and support for zero emission vehicle (ZEV) transition

Our transition plans promise cleaner air and quieter streets, enhancing the quality of life in our communities.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk

This seemed to go under the radar somewhat. So in answer to the previous Government causing confusion in the car industry by moving the goal posts, the new Government has moved them again! YCNMIU.

Not a great move imo. Forcing people to buy cars they don't want, used electric vehicle sales values are plummeting and it doesnt really help when large parts of Europe are phasing out at a later date. Not doing much if anything for climate change really when the majority of the world isn't phasing out petrol and diesel. Electric cars also have a big impact on climate change and the environment in their resourcing with manufacturers using unethical and environmentally damaging mining practices along with widespread use of children in mines in West Africa.

Can see the used sale prices of petrol and diesel cars going sky high near to 2030! Also no one wants electric vans, aside from utility companies that just swallow the inconvenience and cost and pass on to the consumer. Electric van cost, range and practicality is appalling.

Not a lot of numbers included in the Government investment detail either? Infact no detail just rehashed previously annouced numbers as far as I can see?

I dont see any cabinet ministers being driven around in a Prius so the Government are not exactly leading the way. Kind of speaks volumes ? Do as I say not as I do! Can we expect a convienent exemption for Government vehicles? Why aren't the Government investing in hydrogen?

All in all no doubt we'll intentioned, but imo ill thought out and certainly not a vote winner. Just like the impending ban on domestic gas boiliers where the solution and alternative doesn't fill the void. So expect further Government goal post manouvers in the coming years, presumably after we have lost yet more of our car manufacturing industry.
 
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Churchlawtonblue said:
www.gov.uk

Phasing out the sale of new petrol and diesel cars from 2030 and support for zero emission vehicle (ZEV) transition

Our transition plans promise cleaner air and quieter streets, enhancing the quality of life in our communities.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk

This seemed to go under the radar somewhat. So in answer to the previous Government causing confusion in the car industry by moving the goal posts, the new Government has moved them again! YCNMIU.


Not a great move imo. Forcing people to buy cars they don't want, used electric vehicle sales values are plummeting and it doesnt really help when large parts of Europe are phasing out at a later date. Not doing much if anything for climate change really when the majority of the world isn't phasing out petrol and diesel. Electric cars also have a big impact on climate change and the environment in their resourcing with manufacturers using unethical and environmentally damaging mining practices along with widespread use of children in mines in West Africa.

Can see the used sale prices of petrol and diesel cars going sky high near to 2030! Also no one wants electric vans, aside from utility companies that just swallow the inconvenience and cost and pass on to the consumer. Electric van cost, range and practicality is appalling.

Not a lot of detail numbers included in the Government investment detail either? Infact no detail just rehashed previously annouced numbers as far as I can see?

I dont see any cabinet ministers being driven around in a Prius so the Government are not exactly leading the way. Kind of speaks volumes ? Do as I say not as I do! Can we expect a convienent exemption for Government vehicles? Why aren't the Government investing in hydrogen?

All in all no doubt we'll intentioned, but ill thought out and certainly not a vote winner, so expect further government goal post manouvers in the coming years, presumably after we have lost yet more of our car manufacturing industry.
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Politicians wanting to be seen as saying the right thing has with respect to the climate and green energy whilst knowing full well that whilst there is oil in the ground, petrol engined cars will be produced and sold.

This can will be kicked down the road for years.
 
blueinsa said:
Politicians wanting to be seen as saying the right thing has with respect to the climate and green energy whilst knowing full well that whilst there is oil in the ground, petrol engined cars will be produced and sold.

This can will be kicked down the road for years.
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At the expense of all those working in the car industry and the consumer.
 
west didsblue said:
The system certainly wasn’t working under the last government who seemed intent in politicising the problem by deliberately not dealing with it which created a huge backlog of people who weren’t allowed to work.

Early days for the new government but they do seem to be processing claims quicker. I have no idea what proportion of successful asylum claimants are in gainful employment paying taxes but it’s got to be more than it was when their asylum claims just weren’t being processed.

The fact that Eastern European migrant workers are no longer coming in significant numbers for seasonal farming and hospitality work suggests there’s certainly jobs out there that many could do.

When you ask what skills they have, it’s impossible to answer as they are all different, which is why they need to be processed quickly and either deported or allowed to work.
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Thanks for the response. One of the reasons I asked is that I read an article a few weeks back that stated that only half those that are granted asylum go into paid work. I will try and find it and post on here. Cheers
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
www.gov.uk

Phasing out the sale of new petrol and diesel cars from 2030 and support for zero emission vehicle (ZEV) transition

Our transition plans promise cleaner air and quieter streets, enhancing the quality of life in our communities.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk

This seemed to go under the radar somewhat. So in answer to the previous Government causing confusion in the car industry by moving the goal posts, the new Government has moved them again! YCNMIU.

Not a great move imo. Forcing people to buy cars they don't want, used electric vehicle sales values are plummeting and it doesnt really help when large parts of Europe are phasing out at a later date. Not doing much if anything for climate change really when the majority of the world isn't phasing out petrol and diesel. Electric cars also have a big impact on climate change and the environment in their resourcing with manufacturers using unethical and environmentally damaging mining practices along with widespread use of children in mines in West Africa.

Can see the used sale prices of petrol and diesel cars going sky high near to 2030! Also no one wants electric vans, aside from utility companies that just swallow the inconvenience and cost and pass on to the consumer. Electric van cost, range and practicality is appalling.

Not a lot of numbers included in the Government investment detail either? Infact no detail just rehashed previously annouced numbers as far as I can see?

I dont see any cabinet ministers being driven around in a Prius so the Government are not exactly leading the way. Kind of speaks volumes ? Do as I say not as I do! Can we expect a convienent exemption for Government vehicles? Why aren't the Government investing in hydrogen?

All in all no doubt we'll intentioned, but imo ill thought out and certainly not a vote winner. Just like the impending ban on domestic gas boiliers where the solution and alternative doesn't fill the void. So expect further Government goal post manouvers in the coming years, presumably after we have lost yet more of our car manufacturing industry.
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The petrol car industry has hit the limits of innovation and it's being pushed to the limits simply because the Co2 output is accumulative. Petrol cars are perhaps 90% more efficient than they were 60 years ago but the problem is there are millions more cars on the road so the Co2 output is not really going to improve.

This is why electric cars are important, they're a non-accumulative replacement. There can be 100m electric cars on the road and the Co2 impact of them is zero bar the production impact. What is the environmental impact of producing petrol cars and what is the environmental impact of producing petrol itself? It's FAR worse than EV's and their supply chain.

Electric cars are a wholly superior solution and they will only get cheaper. I also don't understand anybody who argues about car depreciation as though petrol cars are superior? If you buy a brand new petrol BMW today then I guarantee that it will be worth less tomorrow. Buying any car to treat as an appreciative asset is stupid.

Electric car values aren't great because anybody who got an EV 5 years ago will probably get a new one because the newer models are worlds apart from the ones that came before.

Differentiating between petrol cars is much harder. Except for cost, is there really any difference between a 5 year old BMW 1 series and a brand new one? With EV's this is a different story, a brand new EV with newer technology can have miles more range for example so you're more likely to buy new.
 
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inbetween said:
The petrol car industry has hit the limits of innovation and it's being pushed to the limits simply because the Co2 output is accumulative. Petrol cars are perhaps 90% more efficient than they were 60 years ago but the problem is there are millions more cars on the road so the Co2 output is not really going to improve.

This is why electric cars are important, they're a non-accumulative replacement. There can be 100m electric cars on the road and the Co2 impact of them is zero bar the production impact. What is the environmental impact of producing petrol cars and what is the environmental impact of producing petrol itself? It's FAR worse than EV's and their supply chain.

Electric cars are a wholly superior solution and they will only get cheaper. I also don't understand anybody who argues about car depreciation as though petrol cars are superior? If you buy a brand new petrol BMW today then I guarantee that it will be worth less tomorrow. Buying any car to treat as an appreciative asset is stupid.

Electric car values aren't great because anybody who got an EV 5 years ago will probably get a new one because the newer models are worlds apart from the ones that came before.

Differentiating between petrol cars is much harder. Except for cost, is there really any difference between a 5 year old BMW 1 series and a brand new one? With EV's this is a different story, a brand new EV with newer technology can have miles more range for example so you're more likely to buy new.
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I understand the CO2 emissions bit but what difference does the UK make if the majority if the world are not phasing out at the same time. The truth is very little.

Also if electric cars are so great, why are the public being forced to buy them? The truth is they are expensive and nowhere as practical as petrol or diesel cars. They are a big backwards step in convenience for the majority of drivers.

No one wants even a 1 to 2 yr old electric car, the depreciation is significantly more than a petrol car or diesel cars.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
I understand the CO2 emissions bit but what difference does the UK make if the majority if the world are not phasing out at the same time. The truth is very little.

Also if electric cars are so great, why are the public being forced to buy them? The truth is they are expensive and nowhere as practical as petrol or diesel cars. They are a big backwards step in convenience for the majority of drivers.

No one wants even a 1 to 2 yr old electric car, the depreciation is significantly more than a petrol car or diesel cars.
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I wouldn’t say for the majority of drivers, not many people regularly drive over 250 miles a day.

The biggest inconvenience would be if someone didn’t have the means to park and charge it at home (or cheaply at work). I wouldn’t even remotely consider one in that scenario.
 
meltonblue said:
I wouldn’t say for the majority of drivers, not many people regularly drive over 250 miles a day.

The biggest inconvenience would be if someone didn’t have the means to park and charge it at home (or cheaply at work). I wouldn’t even remotely consider one in that scenario.
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The stats indicate otherwise. Just under one in five new car sales are electric in the UK. If it isn't inconvenience what is it? Depreciation? Although very heavy seems unlikley?

The simple fact is if electric cars were attractive to the majority of the population then Goverment wouldn't need to enforce the sales rules.

Do you think they had to force people to stop using horses after the motorcar was invented? I dont think so.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
The stats indicate otherwise. Just under one in five new car sales are electric in the UK. If it isn't inconvenience what is it? Depreciation? Although very heavy seems unlikley?

The simple fact is if electric cars were attractive to the majority of the population then Goverment wouldn't need to enforce the sales rules.

Do you think they had to force people to stop using horses after the motorcar was invented? I dont think so.
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The stats don’t indicate convenience or lack of it. Yes I’d imagine depreciation. I’ve got one but it’s through salary sacrifice, I wouldn’t have bought it outright myself.

It has made me now want to get my wife’s car, which we use as a runaround, as an electric when we replace that though.
 
meltonblue said:
The stats don’t indicate convenience or lack of it. Yes I’d imagine depreciation. I’ve got one but it’s through salary sacrifice, I wouldn’t have bought it outright myself.

It has made me now want to get my wife’s car, which we use as a runaround, as an electric when we replace that though.
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So your car is a company car?

They are incentivising people to buy electric company cars with tax benefits, even that isn't through straight choice. Take company cars aways and the I bet the % of private new car sales that are electric are significantly less than 20%. The stats speak for themselves, the vast majority of people don't want them.

Having just checked. Only 10% of new car purchases by private buyers were electric. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of their convenience, economy or depreciation?

As I stated, they didn't have to ban horse sales to get people into motorcars, they sold themselves. Something EVs are not capable of.
 
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Churchlawtonblue said:
So your car is a company car?

They are incentivising people to buy electric company cars with tax benefits, even that isn't through straight choice. Take company cars aways and the I bet the % of private new car sales that are electric are significantly less than 20%. The stats speak for themselves, the vast majority of people don't want them.

Having just checked. Only 10% of new car purchases by private buyers were electric. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of their convenience, economy or depreciation?

As I stated, they didn't have to ban horse sales to get people into motorcars, they sold themselves. Something EVs are not capable of.
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I agree. I was only challenging your point about convenience. I was just pointing out that now having had one, I think for an awful lot of people they’d actually be more convenient than not, particularly for people that have a wife like mine that do a lot of short trips all the time.
 
meltonblue said:
I agree. I was only challenging your point about convenience. I was just pointing out that now having had one, I think for an awful lot of people they’d actually be more convenient than not, particularly for people that have a wife like mine that do a lot of short trips all the time.
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NP, Probably right on the shorter distances, as long as you have a drive.
 
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