The Labour Government

Oldham Exile said:
There are levels of 'political snobbery' you see a lot of on this forum IMO.

It manifests on a number of threads by the 'know it all(s)' demeaning and ridiculing the views of others - there tends to be a pile-on by the familiar posters to shut down any views that are alternative to their own. Threads sometimes become just echo chambers as those that do not conform have better things to do.

Here you are rubbishing another poster's view and at the same time stating - "It's not an issue for many"- how are you qualified to state that so unequivocally? What is many in your eyes? - or are you just making things up off the cuff.

Some people might think that for such a statement to be made without any backing up of facts and in the face of so mush reporting of it being an high profile issue could be viewed as being laughable to the point of being puerile.
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And yet you’re rubbishing another poster’s view, so what’s the difference?
 
Oldham Exile said:
There are levels of 'political snobbery' you see a lot of on this forum IMO.

It manifests on a number of threads by the 'know it all(s)' demeaning and ridiculing the views of others - there tends to be a pile-on by the familiar posters to shut down any views that are alternative to their own. Threads sometimes become just echo chambers as those that do not conform have better things to do.

Here you are rubbishing another poster's view and at the same time stating - "It's not an issue for many"- how are you qualified to state that so unequivocally? What is many in your eyes? - or are you just making things up off the cuff.

Some people might think that for such a statement to be made without any backing up of facts and in the face of so mush reporting of it being an high profile issue could be viewed as being laughable to the point of being puerile.
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How was the other poster able to state, unequivocally, that it's an issue for everyone?
 
Blue and true said:
How was the other poster able to state, unequivocally, that it's an issue for everyone?
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I gave you evidence as manifested by Labours “smash the gangs” and “stop the boats” policies and the rise in vote for a Reform party who are almost a single issue party.

You can ignore results as much as you want, it doesn’t change the political landscape right now
 
Brewster's millions said:
If that’s the case, then why are Labour placing such emphasis on ‘smashing the gangs’ and heralding the number of deportations since coming into office, to the point that they’ve published exaggerated and misleading data?

The boats issue is just one example of the government’s complete lack of political instinct and guile. They’ve been chasing their tail since day one, starting with their inability to sense the public’s anger around the freebies issue, which in hindsight set the tone for everything that’s followed. Currently they’re trying to out-Reform Refotm on the boats issue, but it’s just another example of how reactionary they’ve been.

If Starmer can’t get ahead of the situation and set out an agenda that actually resonates with voters then he’ll be gone inside 18 months.
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I never said it wasn't an issue for the political class. I said it's not an issue for me. Contrary to what another poster thinks, my head isn't buried in the sand. Rather, I'm forming judgement on what I see around me; and my life, despite being imperfect, is not one iota adversely affected by "boat people". And I know others; family, friends and colleagues, who feel exactly the same. The irony is, many who feel aggrieved by the boat people will live cosseted lives in quaint little villages and only ever encounter foreigners when they're serving them a curry or delivering them their latest Amazon package. Funny that.

The reason it seems such a huge issue for politicians is because we live in an age whereby they react to social media barometers; I doubt the issue of how to correctly designate a woman was keeping Starmer awake at night. Nevertheless, he was impelled to address it.

I agree, Labour have been weak thus far; uninspired and frankly, Tories in sheep's clothing. But I like to think I'm wise enough to know Reform will eat from the same dirty trough.
 
blueinsa said:
I gave you evidence as manifested by Labours “smash the gangs” and “stop the boats” policies and the rise in vote for a Reform party who are almost a single issue party.

You can ignore results as much as you want, it doesn’t change the political landscape right now
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Clearly you're all right.

It's a huge political issue, but it's not one that actually affects many people's day to day lives.

I suspect it's got traction because Reform are using it as a dog whistle for their wider views on race and immigration. If the boats were stopped overnight, they wouldn't pack up and say "well done Labour", they'd find another target to keep immigration and race at the fore.
 
bluenova said:
Clearly you're all right.

It's a huge political issue, but it's not one that actually affects many people's day to day lives.

I suspect it's got traction because Reform are using it as a dog whistle for their wider views on race and immigration. If the boats were stopped overnight, they wouldn't pack up and say "well done Labour", they'd find another target to keep immigration and race at the fore.
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It’s got traction because it’s an issue for the country and its citizens.

I 100% agree it’s just one of many many issues and not the biggest issue we face but nonetheless, it’s a vote winner/loser and politicians know it.
 
BobKowalski said:
And yet you’re rubbishing another poster’s view, so what’s the difference?
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1/ I was pointing out that he was rubbishing and using his own words to emphasise that.

2/ Some of you posters should get off here and make a concerted effort to explain to people (other than Bluemooners) that this is not an issue for many.

Since my earlier post - I have been in the car and was listening to 5Live. A Councillor from Lincolnshire was on explaining that they have been battered by Reform and there was only one issue being discussed on the doorsteps - guess what that was.

You guys need to phone in and put him - and all the other callers - straight!!!

TBF - it confuses me how such a non-issue can be made the primary topic of the 5Live phone-in
 
Oldham Exile said:
1/ I was pointing out that he was rubbishing and using his own words to emphasise that.

2/ Some of you posters should get off here and make a concerted effort to explain to people (other than Bluemooners) that this is not an issue for many.

Since my earlier post - I have been in the car and was listening to 5Live. A Councillor from Lincolnshire was on explaining that they have been battered by Reform and there was only one issue being discussed on the doorsteps - guess what that was.

You guys need to phone in and put him - and all the other callers - straight!!!

TBF - it confuses me how such a non-issue can be made the primary topic of the 5Live phone-in
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In Lincolnshire - home of the over 65’s I’m guessing it was WFA?

If not then it was all those people arriving in Skegness in dinghies.

If it was dinghies, then I have bad news. Under our current asylum policy nothing is stopping the boats. You’ll make a dent here and there, but no policy or Govt is stopping the boats other them by sinking then and killing everyone before they get here.

And yes, there are people who would happily vote for that.
 
Blue and true said:
Boats a big issue in everyone's eyes? You don't speak for many and you certainly don't speak for me.
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Just look at the election results, keep telling yourself immigration isn’t a problem is exactly why MAGA,Reform and the far right are gaining ground it’s the reason Brexit happened. Go to the pub and if you say to someone countries in a shit state and you say can’t believe they got rid of the WFA and the first thing they’ll say in response is ye and they are giving to the fuckers coming in on the boats. Is the got to default response for everything that’s going wrong, whether it’s right or wrong it’s there and the sooner the bigger parties address it the more chance they have of stopping the likes of Reform.
 
blueinsa said:
It’s got traction because it’s an issue for the country and its citizens.

I 100% agree it’s just one of many many issues and not the biggest issue we face but nonetheless, it’s a vote winner/loser and politicians know it.
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Whether people like it or not, in a lot of people’s eyes I’d argue it is the biggest issue. Farage and reform know this and are reaping the benefits of it. It’s why they are capable of getting the votes they do without needing to publicise pretty much any other policy decisions at all.

Labour have two choices. Try and change the narrative or actually do something about it. I don’t think they’ve got a chance of the former, they’re up against it with comms and narratives across the board even without them doing self inflicted own goals.

So they’ve got to do something about it.
 
Blue and true said:
I never said it wasn't an issue for the political class. I said it's not an issue for me. Contrary to what another poster thinks, my head isn't buried in the sand. Rather, I'm forming judgement on what I see around me; and my life, despite being imperfect, is not one iota adversely affected by "boat people". And I know others; family, friends and colleagues, who feel exactly the same. The irony is, many who feel aggrieved by the boat people will live cosseted lives in quaint little villages and only ever encounter foreigners when they're serving them a curry or delivering them their latest Amazon package. Funny that.

The reason it seems such a huge issue for politicians is because we live in an age whereby they react to social media barometers; I doubt the issue of how to correctly designate a woman was keeping Starmer awake at night. Nevertheless, he was impelled to address it.

I agree, Labour have been weak thus far; uninspired and frankly, Tories in sheep's clothing. But I like to think I'm wise enough to know Reform will eat from the same dirty trough.
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So you say it doesn’t affect you directly, well Labour are spending £6.5 billion on asylum and illegal immigrants, so that’s your taxes etc that is been spent that could otherwise be used for say WFA or the NHS etc etc, this isn’t chump change and when people are losing things and see everyday on the news boats offloading in Kent they use this and get pissed off. I’m all for proper immigration and allowing people in who we need in the country but if we don’t want to see the rise of the far right over here they need to get their act together, many fobbed off and said Reform would go away well the complete opposite has happened, maybe the only saving grace is the way Trump is acting it could have a knock on effect like it did in Canada because the right were on course to win there until Trump turned up.
 
meltonblue said:
Whether people like it or not, in a lot of people’s eyes I’d argue it is the biggest issue. Farage and reform know this and are reaping the benefits of it. It’s why they are capable of getting the votes they do without needing to publicise pretty much any other policy decisions at all.

Labour have two choices. Try and change the narrative or actually do something about it. I don’t think they’ve got a chance of the former, they’re up against it with comms and narratives across the board even without them doing self inflicted own goals.

So they’ve got to do something about it.
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There is little they can do about it, except remove the need to cross by dinghy by opening a processing centre in France - assuming the French will allow this, and opening safer routes.

We don’t do this because it will be seen to be ‘encouraging’ asylum seekers by media, Reform et al, so you end up by having to stop the impossible. It’s all a bit King Canute.
 
meltonblue said:
Whether people like it or not, in a lot of people’s eyes I’d argue it is the biggest issue. Farage and reform know this and are reaping the benefits of it. It’s why they are capable of getting the votes they do without needing to publicise pretty much any other policy decisions at all.

Labour have two choices. Try and change the narrative or actually do something about it. I don’t think they’ve got a chance of the former, they’re up against it with comms and narratives across the board even without them doing self inflicted own goals.

So they’ve got to do something about it.
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The problem I see is that it's not really just about "small boats".

Farage has been anti-immigrant his whole career. The UK could stop taking in refugees tomorrow, and he'd just focus on another aspect of immigration. Reform are obviously very strong on social media, and it's amazing how often the phrase "Christian Country" has started to pop up. That's not aimed at a few thousand asylum seekers on small boats, it's aimed at millions of British citizens, many of whom are second and third generation immigrants. Clearly they aren't going anywhere.

I'd argue that Labour can't go much further on immigration without alienating more people than they attract. They can only look at changing the narrative, by taking the sting out of as many of the day to day issues that people blame on immigrants. It will never be enough for Farage, but cutting the Asylum backlog so they can get people out of hotels, and cut the costs; working with France to cut down the boat crossings - but mostly by building houses, improving the NHS etc.
 
BobKowalski said:
There is little they can do about it, except remove the need to cross by dinghy by opening a processing centre in France - assuming the French will allow this, and opening safer routes.

We don’t do this because it will be seen to be ‘encouraging’ asylum seekers by media, Reform et al, so you end up by having to stop the impossible. It’s all a bit King Canute.
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Nothing would ever be enough for Reform.
 
BobKowalski said:
There is little they can do about it, except remove the need to cross by dinghy by opening a processing centre in France - assuming the French will allow this, and opening safer routes.

We don’t do this because it will be seen to be ‘encouraging’ asylum seekers by media, Reform et al, so you end up by having to stop the impossible. It’s all a bit King Canute.
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Agreed, there’s no easy path for Labour.
 
bluenova said:
The problem I see is that it's not really just about "small boats".

Farage has been anti-immigrant his whole career. The UK could stop taking in refugees tomorrow, and he'd just focus on another aspect of immigration. Reform are obviously very strong on social media, and it's amazing how often the phrase "Christian Country" has started to pop up. That's not aimed at a few thousand asylum seekers on small boats, it's aimed at millions of British citizens, many of whom are second and third generation immigrants. Clearly they aren't going anywhere.

I'd argue that Labour can't go much further on immigration without alienating more people than they attract. They can only look at changing the narrative, by taking the sting out of as many of the day to day issues that people blame on immigrants. It will never be enough for Farage, but cutting the Asylum backlog so they can get people out of hotels, and cut the costs; working with France to cut down the boat crossings - but mostly by building houses, improving the NHS etc.
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I’m just not sure how much they’ll get it to cut through, particularly with both the media and social media being in the state it’s in currently.

I’ve noticed an increase in the Christian narrative too. I didn’t think that side of the Maga playbook would work at all over here but does seem to be cutting through with some. Poisoned chalice for the church…
 
BobKowalski said:
In Lincolnshire - home of the over 65’s I’m guessing it was WFA?

If not then it was all those people arriving in Skegness in dinghies.

If it was dinghies, then I have bad news. Under our current asylum policy nothing is stopping the boats. You’ll make a dent here and there, but no policy or Govt is stopping the boats other them by sinking then and killing everyone before they get here.

And yes, there are people who would happily vote for that.
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No point just telling us Bluemooners - you guys need to get on the national news outlets - like 5Live - they and their callers have not had the benefit of being told it is not an issue for many

I mentioned the Councillor - who had personal experience, but all other callers I heard had the same view - that it is a significant issue

They also need reassurance and telling that they are wrong
 
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