The Labour Government

[bluethrunthru]

Harry Cole no longer has access to anyone of any influence and it shows in his fantasy Project Fear claims

 

[bluethrunthru]

Is the sea not big enough for everyone? It’s fucking huge.

At least deals are getting completed.

If it allows me to go through passport control without all the current pissing around then I am all for it.

for every £1000 contributed to UK GDP fishing accounts for 30p. Why it gets this level of attention is beyond me - the arts and the ability to tour the EU for the arts will bring in way more. Oh and this agreement means fisherfolk can send product to the EU ( who's citizens want it ) more easily and fresher so it will sell for more than currently - still all the media dump on it because its not a Johnson or Farage deal

 

[bluethrunthru]

My mate, who came from generations of fishermen in Grimsby, stated that he left because of the dangers and hardships they went through. The family blamed Europe, he blamed the rich, mafia families taking over the quotas.

It made me think that it wasn’t just about the EU, but about how big business lobbies (pays money) for their own good.

Looking back on that, he wasn’t wrong.

and those Mafia families simply sold their boats and fishing allocations to EU based companies when it suited them. Go to your nearest fishing port - mine would be 7 miles away at Redcar where in the 25+ years I have lived here has had a small fleet of inshore boats launched off the beaches - they catch things like Dab, the odd cod or haddock and some have crab or lobster pots. Up the coast boats and quotas have been sold to Dutch firms who get more fish further out in a morning than Redcar will get in a morning. Forget Brexit since the 1970's we have had few stocks, little investment and can mostly land species the UK consumer doesn't want - fishing has been in a managed decline as owners sold it off to foreign vessels

 

[tweety]

Wow. It now appears that you're an expert on the UK fishing industry, we're truly blessed, where does your knowledge end?

 

[Vic]

Wow. It now appears that you're an expert on the UK fishing industry, we're truly blessed, where does your knowledge end?

There you go. You are Michael Gove and I claim my five pounds.

 

[tweety]

There you go. You are Michael Gove and I claim my five pounds.

Are you his batman?

 

[bluethrunthru]

Wow. It now appears that you're an expert on the UK fishing industry, we're truly blessed, where does your knowledge end?

Its called reading - I was taught to do it at an early age - you should try it

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

for every £1000 contributed to UK GDP fishing accounts for 30p. Why it gets this level of attention is beyond me - the arts and the ability to tour the EU for the arts will bring in way more. Oh and this agreement means fisherfolk can send product to the EU ( who's citizens want it ) more easily and fresher so it will sell for more than currently - still all the media dump on it because its not a Johnson or Farage deal

Exactly. The 'UK fishing industry' is about as relevant as the UK coal industry. We have nothing to be protectionist about in that sense - whatever the cause of it's demise that is in the past
It would be good to use Brexit as a means to protect fish stocks in our waters from industrial scale fishing (by anyone) though and create a protected environment for fish stocks to recover. Something that would benefit EU fishermen in the long term.

 

[Damocles]

Exactly. The 'UK fishing industry' is about as relevant as the UK coal industry. We have nothing to be protectionist about in that sense - whatever the cause of it's demise that is in the past
It would be good to use Brexit as a means to protect fish stocks in our waters from industrial scale fishing (by anyone) though and create a protected environment for fish stocks to recover. Something that would benefit EU fishermen in the long term.

You can't eat coal or the arts

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

You can't eat coal or the arts

Fair enough, but I'm not sure how much of the catch from British waters actually ends up on our plates? We have a strange and pretty minimal relationship with our fish stocks considering we are an island!

 

[Damocles]

Fair enough, but I'm not sure how much of the catch from British waters actually ends up on our plates? We have a strange and pretty minimal relationship with our fish stocks considering we are an island!

Yeah it's a bit odd. But we should never ever ever mess about with food or energy security imo. Part of the reason that Russia felt so empowered is that a lot of European nations partially offset their energy security to them in return for political gains at home. An immensely short-sighted thing to do.

We have huge amounts of farmland (72% of the nation) and a near unlimited supply of edible food (if fished sustainably) and wind/currents to create energy. Although I recognise battery technology isn't quite there yet, how we haven't prioritised this in the interests of national security if nothing else is a bit baffling. Securing seems a hundred times more important than investing in yet another attack helicopter in terms of defence issues.

 

[Vic]

Yeah it's a bit odd. But we should never ever ever mess about with food or energy security imo. Part of the reason that Russia felt so empowered is that a lot of European nations partially offset their energy security to them in return for political gains at home. An immensely short-sighted thing to do.

We have huge amounts of farmland (72% of the nation) and a near unlimited supply of edible food (if fished sustainably) and wind/currents to create energy. Although I recognise battery technology isn't quite there yet, how we haven't prioritised this in the interests of national security if nothing else is a bit baffling. Securing seems a hundred times more important than investing in yet another attack helicopter in terms of defence issues.

Or £100bn for an "independent" nuclear deterrent that depends on the USA

 

[Oldham Exile]

Fair enough, but I'm not sure how much of the catch from British waters actually ends up on our plates? We have a strange and pretty minimal relationship with our fish stocks considering we are an island!

For me I have not read any comments on what I consider the most important point re the deal on fishing.

I hear people reference that we do not have the fleet capability to do the fishing, or that UK people are not willing to do the jobs etc. etc.

What I don't hear is acknowledgement that access to our fishing waters is of high importance/value to certain EU countries. This was supposed to be a negotiation - yet we do not seem to have used the value of access to our waters as bargaining for other concessions. And then also we gave the access for an extended period - thereby throwing away future negotiation leverage.

 

[Blackley_Blue]

Morrisons chief Rami Baitiéh welcomed the agreement, saying that removing trade barriers with the EU "will remove cost, complexity and delay in food imports from the continent".

"This promises to ease a source of pressure on food prices and is therefore good news for shoppers," he added.

A statement from Asda struck a similar tone. The supermarket said it welcomes today's agreement, which it says has the potential "to significantly reduce costs and bureaucracy".

"We look forward to supporting the government as work begins to finalise the detail, and we hope that this will happen as soon as possible, to deliver the maximum possible benefits for our customers."

Do let me know when they drop the prices...

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

For me I have not read any comments on what I consider the most important point re the deal on fishing.

I hear people reference that we do not have the fleet capability to do the fishing, or that UK people are not willing to do the jobs etc. etc.

What I don't hear is acknowledgement that access to our fishing waters is of high importance/value to certain EU countries. This was supposed to be a negotiation - yet we do not seem to have used the value of access to our waters as bargaining for other concessions. And then also we gave the access for an extended period - thereby throwing away future negotiation leverage.

Aside from being able to join the shorter/quicker queue at passport control the only beneficiary of this deal in the medium term will probably be Reform.
To bring the slightly incendiary issue of fishing to the fore is a bit politically inept - domestically at least. A bit like the wfa cut which brought much more benefit to reform than treasury coffers.

 

[Damocles]

Or £100bn for an "independent" nuclear deterrent that depends on the USA

I've long argued that nuclear weapons are the biggest bunch of bullshit spending we and other nations continue to do. Half of them won't work, the others that do will be intercepted, the others that won't will miss their targets and their destructive capabilities are pretty exaggerated in the media.

For one nuclear weapon upgrade's cost, you could have 100,000 drones that will shoot that missile out of the sky and then scorched earth its entire landing platform in an almost undetectable way driven entirely by AI programming that can change strategies and flock behaviours in a split second and requires little to no human oversight or intervention. That's how wars will be fought in the future, not big scary ICBMs or other smart bombs.

 

[Brewster's millions]

For me I have not read any comments on what I consider the most important point re the deal on fishing.

I hear people reference that we do not have the fleet capability to do the fishing, or that UK people are not willing to do the jobs etc. etc.

What I don't hear is acknowledgement that access to our fishing waters is of high importance/value to certain EU countries. This was supposed to be a negotiation - yet we do not seem to have used the value of access to our waters as bargaining for other concessions. And then also we gave the access for an extended period - thereby throwing away future negotiation leverage.

The UK has effectively handed over permanent access to its waters to the EU - if the fishing deal isn’t rolled over in 12 years’ time then there will be a facility to revoke the new arrangements on food exports, which are being reported as permanent, but will be able to be altered if the EU decides to do so.

Reportedly the UK negotiating position was for a 5 year extension to the fishing rights, so it’s quite a change.

 

[meltonblue]

For me I have not read any comments on what I consider the most important point re the deal on fishing.

I hear people reference that we do not have the fleet capability to do the fishing, or that UK people are not willing to do the jobs etc. etc.

What I don't hear is acknowledgement that access to our fishing waters is of high importance/value to certain EU countries. This was supposed to be a negotiation - yet we do not seem to have used the value of access to our waters as bargaining for other concessions. And then also we gave the access for an extended period - thereby throwing away future negotiation leverage.

I’m not sure how anyone aside from those disingenuously reporting on it in some areas can look at the deal and not think we got some good concessions too.

 

[bluenova]

Fair enough, but I'm not sure how much of the catch from British waters actually ends up on our plates? We have a strange and pretty minimal relationship with our fish stocks considering we are an island!

I remember years ago being surprised that so much of that "local" seafood I'd eaten on holiday, was caught by British fishermen, off our coast, and then travelled 1000 miles before it hit my plate.

 

[bluenova]

for every £1000 contributed to UK GDP fishing accounts for 30p. Why it gets this level of attention is beyond me - the arts and the ability to tour the EU for the arts will bring in way more. Oh and this agreement means fisherfolk can send product to the EU ( who's citizens want it ) more easily and fresher so it will sell for more than currently - still all the media dump on it because its not a Johnson or Farage deal

I said this yesterday, but it's almost certainly because it's a visible "Us v Foreigners" situation.

It's easier to get people to care about "foreign* boats" taking "our fish", because it's easy to visualise.

All the companies trading with the UK that went out of business, or who could no longer viably export to the EU, after Brexit, are much less visible. No-one is going to get voters riled up by explaining that additional form filling and admin costs have stopped someone who use to sell cheese to the EU, no longer has a business, and that someone in France is now selling more cheese as a result.

*of course, much of the "English" fleet is also foreign owned, but that's nothing to worry about...