The Labour Government

Norbert D said:
As others have mentioned, Starmer is a technocrat, a policy wonk, he doesnt arrive at decisions through Daily Mail headlines or inbuilt cruelty, but logic. On occasion that logic doesnt account for the human side and that’s what his MPs should and have pointed out and ask for a change of direction. It’s how a democracy should work.
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So U turns are good? Show’s the prime minister is listening?

Curious then why you liked @bluethrunthru x post about how many u turns were made by tories, if you think they good?
 
Chippy_boy said:
Actually, I don't think she is/was.

The country today is in an absolutely dire state, teetering on the edge of bankruptcy and an IMF bailout. There is no growth, wealth creators leaving the country in droves, millions not working, skyrocketing health costs, record high taxes already and nowhere to go. We're on the brink of being completely fucked.

Truss recognised this and decided she had to do SOMETHING to kick start the economy and get growth moving. Growth is the only thing that can fix things. Even Labour recognise that.

But instead of taxing people even more - Labour's approach - and hoping that Labour spending it will drive growth (a policy doomed to failure IMO), she decided to cut taxes to drive growth. Where she went wrong was not first selling the plan to the markets which understandably got spooked. That was the bad mistake.

Had she said "look, we're going to have to take the unprecented move to borrow temporarily to fund day to day spending whilst we cut taxes, BUT we will pay that back as growth kicks in and tax receipts rise", then the bond markets would perhaps have supported it. I happen to think it was actually the right policy. Raising taxes further and further - when they are already at record highs - is not.

Can anyone be happy that more millionaires are leaving the UK than any other country except China - a country with 20x our population? It's diabolical. We need these people to bankroll our public services and squeezing them until the pips squeak is just idiotic.
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She didn't even run it past the cabinet becuase she knew it would ge the thumbs down according to Kwarteng.
 
Norbert D said:
As others have mentioned, Starmer is a technocrat, a policy wonk, he doesnt arrive at decisions through Daily Mail headlines or inbuilt cruelty, but logic. On occasion that logic doesnt account for the human side and that’s what his MPs should and have pointed out and ask for a change of direction. It’s how a democracy should work.
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Is it?

In the UK: to a large part, people vote for the party, not the local MP, and in doing so they also are voting for the PM (or not!) It's the reason Labour lost under Jeremy Corbvn - too many people couldn't bear the possibility of him becoming PM.

This being the case, it's kind of useful - essential I would say - to have some idea what the PM actually stands for. What direction he wants to take the country in, what are his main principles and policy ideas. But people have no clue what Starmer stands for. He changes with the wind. Some think he's a closet Trotskyite, have never reliquished his studenty ideals. Others think he's a closet tory. Others think he's a closet, well, you know what.

I don't think this is great democracy, voting for someone only to find they are not what they said on the tin at all.

I think it's actually one of the reasons Farage had become so popular. People respect individuals who have principles and who stick to them. What you see is what you get. What you see with Starmer has no correlation with what you get.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Hello chaps. Haven't posted or even visited here for a LONG time. It was just too depressing to contemplate after this shower won the GE last year. I've been wearing a black armband ever since.

Just wondered how the die-hard Labour supporters on here thought it was going? Clearly Labour have a huge majority but since only 1 person in 5 able to vote, actually voted for them, they have no popular mandate and it shows in the polls.

Do you think the current ombi-shambles are just teething troubles, whilst they lay the foundations for long term success? Or as I do, the symptoms of a bunch of clueless socialist idiots who couldn't run a piss up in a brewery, let alone a country. For a party who put GROWTH as their main priority, I cannot imagine a set of policies better tuned to delivering the absolute oppposite.
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Bring back the tories..
 
Chippy_boy said:
Oh, and another thing that REALLY pisses me off about this lot. They seem to take great pride in boasting about how they are spending X on this and Y on that, as if it's some marvellous achievement. Any **** can take more and more money off people and spend it. It's nothing to boast about.
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Wasn't that the whole deceit of "levelling up"? That culminated in this nonsense:



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hilts said:
Working for my uncle, he is self employed with a van we did a lot of removals house clearances

So you're healthy and spent a lot of time on your feet

Yes

That's a big plus for this job

Never thought of that.;-)
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Between us, we could be the new Galton and Simpson writing comedy scripts.
 
Norbert D said:
As others have mentioned, Starmer is a technocrat, a policy wonk, he doesnt arrive at decisions through Daily Mail headlines or inbuilt cruelty, but logic. On occasion that logic doesnt account for the human side and that’s what his MPs should and have pointed out and ask for a change of direction. It’s how a democracy should work.
Click to expand...
I think that may be a good analysis of how Starmer thinks. It's easy to think that spending on pensions or disability might be unsustainable (especially if no-one wants to pay more tax *) but most of his MPs are thinking of the effects.

(* Or, no-one paying tax wants to be paying for more and more people not paying tax.)

How do you solve that conundrum? I don't think any of his critics here have really got an answer, they're just enjoying Labour's discomfiture. Badenoch will support a bill "to reduce the welfare budget, to get people into work and not to have tax rises" (which nicely avoids saying how she would deal with PIP).

Reform would of course be cruel. “All job seekers and those fit to work” will have to find employment within four months or accept a job after two offers. Otherwise, "benefits are withdrawn”. (2024 manifesto.) https://www.disabilitynewsservice.c...favours-sweeping-cuts-to-disability-benefits/

Under the noise, Labour is trying to restore some of the community help that the Tories cut and may well be a good part of the increase in claims.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Is it?

In the UK: to a large part, people vote for the party, not the local MP, and in doing so they also are voting for the PM (or not!) It's the reason Labour lost under Jeremy Corbvn - too many people couldn't bear the possibility of him becoming PM.

This being the case, it's kind of useful - essential I would say - to have some idea what the PM actually stands for. What direction he wants to take the country in, what are his main principles and policy ideas. But people have no clue what Starmer stands for. He changes with the wind. Some think he's a closet Trotskyite, have never reliquished his studenty ideals. Others think he's a closet tory. Others think he's a closet, well, you know what.

I don't think this is great democracy, voting for someone only to find they are not what they said on the tin at all.

I think it's actually one of the reasons Farage had become so popular. People respect individuals who have principles and who stick to them. What you see is what you get. What you see with Starmer has no correlation with what you get.
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Give it time and someone is going to come along and offer a popular policy menu from the Left. Don't think that's possible? Well... look at New York but more importantly look what Corbyn achieved in a few short weeks while facing a coordinated attack by EVERY arm of the establishment. He came with in a few 100 votes of winning in 2017.

One day soon someone will run on a platform of:

Equaling out the Financial situation
Non interventionist foreign policy
Direct Democracy (local MP directly instructed how to vote on major issues via constituency referendum)
making the country's infrastructure safe, clean and efficient
And the mass building of council homes

And you know what. MANY people will go for it and the establishments ruse of of choice, the one where all of a sudden, the candidate turns out to be a raving antisemite, has lost quite alot of it's stickibility. Can't think why?
 
Norbert D said:
As others have mentioned, Starmer is a technocrat, a policy wonk, he doesnt arrive at decisions through Daily Mail headlines or inbuilt cruelty, but logic. On occasion that logic doesnt account for the human side and that’s what his MPs should and have pointed out and ask for a change of direction. It’s how a democracy should work.
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Its logical to take into consideration his fellow members and the general public when coming up with policy, its actually illogical to even come up what you did as an argument

Him and Reeves haven't just arrived from planet Vulcan. He keeps trying to save money by taking money off some vulnerable people. Not only is that bad logic its pretty stupid to keep doing the same thing, having to scrap it and wasting valuable time.

It's a fuck up that shouldn't have happened, let's move on rather making crap excuses.
 
philfodenswristsock said:
Give it time and someone is going to come along and offer a popular policy menu from the Left. Don't think that's possible? Well... look at New York but more importantly look what Corbyn achieved in a few short weeks while facing a coordinated attack by EVERY arm of the establishment. He came with in a few 100 votes of winning in 2017.

One day soon someone will run on a platform of:

Equaling out the Financial situation
Non interventionist foreign policy
Direct Democracy (local MP directly instructed how to vote on major issues via constituency referendum)
making the country's infrastructure safe, clean and efficient
And the mass building of council homes

And you know what. MANY people will go for it and the establishments ruse of of choice, the one where all of a sudden, the candidate turns out to be a raving antisemite, has lost quite alot of it's stickibility. Can't think why?
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The slight fly in your ointment is that the country (and indeed every other country) has been progressively moving to the right, not the left. Labour getting in in the UK is an aberration caused by voter apathy and 14 years of some dross Tory governments, nobbled by COVID and the war in Ukraine. Remember only 1 person in 5 of the electorate actually voted for this current shower.

Unless the UK economy takes a HUGE turn for the better, AND Starmer shows some real progress on stopping both legal and illegal immigration, then it is a slam dunk that Farage will win the next GE. As an outside possibility he may have to form a coalition government with the Tories, but there's no way on earth he's partnering with Labour, is there.

And I give Starmer zero chance of turning things around. His successor, Raynor, less than zero.
 
Regrettably no political part will ever work on behalf of the UK people if elected. Cynical maybe but true. Look at all the big scandals of the last 40 years or so and look at how the Govt regardless of party have responded or more importantly have failed to respond. The Tainted Blood Scandal, The Post Office Scandal, The Sexed Dossier on Iraq, The Grenfell Scandal, The HS2 shambles and today it has been announced that papers relating to the Chinook Helicopter Crash will not be released for 100 years. I could go one but it's too depressing. And please don't suggest voting for Reform as they cannot even get competent people to run a local Council.
 
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