The Labour Government

[hampshireblue]

Or challenge the lie that they’re bringing our bills down?

Remember that promise?

You don't believe the price cap has fallen?

 

[hampshireblue]

Excellent wasn't it! Public sector workers feeling some pain just like everyone else, for a change. All in it together etc.

If you say so. I don't quite understand if working in the public sector is such a doddle, why you didn't do it?

FWIW, my company was PPP'd in 2001. Supply and demand of the professional, highly skilled staff meant we didn't ever go a year where a pay rise( handout according to some on here) was not negotiated and awarded. Some were single year deals in the mid 2010s but most were multi year deals and always managing to beat inflation if only by a small amount. Occasionally management would try to get away with a one-off £2000 pay out. This was always rejected as it then had no impact on the pay scales nor pensions. Did we have a good but pragmatic union, you bet we did with 95%+ membership rate but in 36 years, not a day lost to industrial action. Lots of falling out but a respect on both sides to keep away from industrial action. Concessions were made regarding things like shift start times and length of shift to fit the customer's requirements but these were always kept to a minimum where possible.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Yes I am. 10 years in and getting less than 2 x the average salary. It's supply and demand. What would you pay them?

£80k to £100k is not less than 2x average UK pay.

Do you know any poor elderly doctors? No. They don't exist. You become a doctor, earn a VERY decent wage in your first few years and then go on to earn much higher wages as you get older. If they become consultants, the sky is the limit. £200k to £300k is typical and £400k in London not unusual.

I don't think anyone has the right to moan about only earning £80k to £100k after 10 years, when they can go on later in that profession to earn a third of a million a year, retire early and have a fabulous pension. Do you? Really?

What other profession pays better than that for people who are not senior managers or directors?

 

[Chippy_boy]

If you say so. I don't quite understand if working in the public sector is such a doddle, why you didn't do it?

I made a mistake. I didn't realise 40-odd years ago how much better a deal you got. I wish I had. I'd have had more holidays, earned more, been less stressed, had a better pension and retired sooner.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Sorry, are you saying refuse collectors don’t work for the public sector?

In Greater Manchester the majority are employed by the councils for household waste

Some councils use private firms to assist in collections.

Most councils outsource it.

 

[Hertzblue]

So, your sister works part time, refuses to give feedback when requested by management and is happily taking tax payer money for doing a non-existent job?

I hope you had words and pointed out this is totally unacceptable.

Lol,
If you can’t beat em join em I suppose.
They have floated the idea of her renewing her contract - she has made her excuses .

 

[hampshireblue]

£80k to £100k is not less than 2x average UK pay.

Do you know any poor elderly doctors? No. They don't exist. You become a doctor, earn a VERY decent wage in your first few years and then go on to earn much higher wages as you get older. If they become consultants, the sky is the limit. £200k to £300k is typical and £400k in London not unusual.

I don't think anyone has the right to moan about only earning £80k to £100k after 20 years, when they can go on later in that profession to earn a third of a million a year, retire early and have a fabulous pension. Do you? Really?

What other profession pays better than that for people who are not senior managers or directors?

I was specifically referring to the basic pay as the other stuff are variables.

I'm not sure why you are looking at this with such envy. They are a group that spend several years achieving a goal for which, rightly, they are well renumerated. Maybe you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder (lol)? Could we all be doctors, probably not, I certainly couldn't, but I don't look at them and try to decide their worth and value.

I could answer the last question but you won't like the answer.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Are you under the impression the Tories fight for workers rights, better pay and conditions?

Personally, I seem to recall them banging on about lazy British workers, lack of productivity, hamstringing Unions and warning about excessive pay awards.

Maybe you were too busy working all hours for no pay increases to notice.

What you fail to grasp Bob is that not all Tories are evil tossers. We do want people to earn more but we believe that if the economy grows strongly we can all earn more, but if it doesn't, we can't. And the economy doesn't grow strongly if we first if all cripple it with high taxes, too much regulation and paying people to much. I was banging on about doctors pay earlier but this has to be seen in context. I'd love doctors to be paid double and everyone else too, if the country could afford it, but right now, we can't.

There's a direct correlation between cutting taxes and regulation and then seeing strong growth, Vs doing the opposite and seeing growth stall. We're seeing it right now. Again.

 

[metalblue]

If I was Streeting,I would be not charging them for the degree but would require them to remain employed 100% by the NHS for say, 10-12 years after they qualify.

100% agree with this. Nurses, doctors, school teachers should not have to pay for their degree.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I was specifically referring to the basic pay as the other stuff are variables.

I'm not sure why you are looking at this with such envy. They are a group that spend several years achieving a goal for which, rightly, they are well renumerated. Maybe you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder (lol)? Could we all be doctors, probably not, I certainly couldn't, but I don't look at them and try to decide their worth and value.

I could answer the last question but you won't like the answer.

I'm really not that envious, honestly. I've done OK. 40-odd years ago I got a 1st in Physics from Imperial College and eventually got a well paid job. (Some right shit to start with.) But it has been VERY stressful and extremely hard work - never less than 8 hours and often 10, 12 .. sometimes 18 or 20 hours in a day. I could have gone into medicine and did fleetingly consider it but truth is, I just didn't fancy it.

I was merely playing devil's advocate about doctors. I think they are pretty well paid and don't have to much sympathy when I hear them moaning about it, especially compared to what the average person earns.

 

[Chippy_boy]

100% agree with this. Nurses, doctors, school teachers should not have to pay for their degree.

So do I

EDIT: And the "have to work for the NHS for 10 years" bit. We shouldn't be subsidizing their education, paying for their training, only so they can fuck off and work in the private sector or abroad.

 

[stonerblue]

Unless your usage has gone up a fair bit, I doubt anyone’s energy bills have increased by about 30% as yours have. Mine certainly haven’t, so you might want to ask your supplier why it’s gone up so much. It could simply be that there’s an anomaly somewhere in the way they’ve worked out your new monthly payment, or they’re taking the piss.

By the way, Starmer said he was aiming to get the average annual household energy bill down by £300 by 2030. We’re still in 2025.

MIne gone down to 126

 

[Chippy_boy]

Worth repeating something I posted several weeks ago on Private v Public sector.

My sister recently took a pay off from her company ( acrimoniously as is so often the way in the private sector as you approach 60) after a good, well paid career . She is a very able senior manager. She is financially secure and could retire but didn't feel ready so looked for some part-time work. Took a part time fixed contract position with her local NHS trust in a team looking to improve service delivery, job is talking to stakeholders etc, formulating plans etc .
She imagined the culture would be different from what she is used to and in that regard she hasn't been disappointed....
A few weeks in she was invited to a Team event held a nice local hotel. Spent the day on A " Bridgerton" themed day, making period costumes and then had the opportunity to spend time with a therapy dog to relieve her stress.Now its fair to say these sort of things also happen in the private sector , however what my sister has already learnt was that there was no need for a therapy dog - because there is no stress !
She says there is no jeopardy of losing your job , you would have to kill someone. What for her are the usual rules of do what your paid to do or be fired just doesn't exist.
The ethos apparently is to " Be kind" to one another and it seems that takes precedence over everything else.
No one on her team works full time, all are part time, those who started as full time reduced their hours. Add in to that almost total freedom to work from home as you see fit and the result is that nobody is hardly ever available when you need to speak to them, so everything proceeds at a sclerotic pace .Nothing is done within timeframes, deadlines come and go, every excuse is accepted.Everyone looks busy because everything is a priority, there is no focus.
Her boss recognises her experience and keeps asking for her to give feedback on the efficiency of the team. my sister just avoids it as she says there would be no way of telling her without breaking the relationship because she says the truth is the whole set up actually just functions to provide comfortable employment for its participants and if the whole thing was wound up tomorrow and the team made redundant , it would make no meaningful difference whatsoever. Sadly , she says that they simply would not recognise that fact, they don't get it.
They are not facing any cuts it would seem.
To hear that frontline staff are facing redundancy when this is going on ... shocking.

Honestly, I am not remotely surprised by any of this.

I've posted previously about my near neighbour who worked for the NHS for many years doing some management function or other (I never quite understood what but it was liaising with various commitees) and then when there was some restructuring and she decided to leave and get a job in the private sector. She was genuinely shocked at how hard she was expected to work and the stress she was put under. She lasted about 2 years, before quitting and going back to the NHS. Back in the NHS, she had a full time job but was seemingly always on holiday. One year she had 12 weeks holiday! Tbf I think she did this by working some extra days here and there, but even so. She worked from home most of the time. Her demeanor was entirely different. She got free electric bikes to get to the office on the few occasions she actually went in. I got the impression it was a holiday camp. She retired last year, at 60 on a decent pension. She's a lifelong Labour voter, btw.

 

[mayo31]

Most councils outsource it.

Not in Greater Manchester they don’t.

Which was what I said and I detailed household waste

Councils tend to use private firms for recycling.

The private firms attempted to do household waste but failed to hit schedules, complete rounds

Believe it it not it is a huge issue and councilors faced many complaints

So they brought it all back in-house.

 

[stonerblue]

Honestly, I am not remotely surprised by any of this.

I've posted previously about my near neighbour who worked for the NHS for many years doing some management function or other (I never quite understood what but it was liaising with various commitees) and then when there was some restructuring and she decided to leave and get a job in the private sector. She was genuinely shocked at how hard she was expected to work and the stress she was put under. She lasted about 2 years, before quitting and going back to the NHS. Back in the NHS, she had a full time job but was seemingly always on holiday. One year she had 12 weeks holiday! Tbf I think she did this by working some extra days here and there, but even so. She worked from home most of the time. Her demeanor was entirely different. She got free electric bikes to get to the office on the few occasions she actually went in. I got the impression it was a holiday camp. She retired last year, at 60 on a decent pension. She's a lifelong Labour voter, btw.

Stalker..

 

[west didsblue]

I was £1200 in credit, paying £160 a month th and in the same month the cap goes down and I’m told Labour are reducing my bills I get told they want to up my DD to £214 a month.

Yeah, fucking right!

Do the government run your utility provider?

 

[Chippy_boy]

is happily taking tax payer money for doing a non-existent job?

I think you'll find there's a lot of that goes on, Bob. In some sectors more than others.

I worked at GKN Steelstocks in Hazel Grove for a few months. The steel would arrive on lorries in the morning mainly and we'd work for a few hours and then do nothing for most of the day. They'd even built a den inside the warehouse where you could hide inside and have a kip. Then at 16:30 we'd do overtime!

I was maybe 19 at the time - it was a vac job - so not my place to say it do anything about it, but had it been my business id have sacked half the workforce.

 

[Don Karleone]

Out of interest, who did you want in?

Out of the options we had, I voted Green. I knew the people running the Labour Party were heartless bastards because I'd seen it between 2015/19.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Most councils outsource it.

Just under 40% do thats not "most". Also its a declining trend as more and more councils are looking to take it in house because despite outsourcing the physical activity of bin collection in law the council retains responsibility for it so if the company doing the work start doing a poor job of it then its the council not the company that is taken to task over it.

 

[blueinsa]

Do the government run your utility provider?

Did they promise lower bills?