The Labour Government

[metalblue]

have the strikes happened ?

Will Labour totally ignore any talks and allow months and years of strikes (costing billions and billions to the economy) like the Tories did? let's see.

Government have said “that it will not negotiate on pay” according to the BMA. 5 days of strikes announced from 25th.

 

[Chippy_boy]

If indeed they exist then those sort of courts should be controlled or even banned as well, I have no problem with that.

I mention it because my niece is a Muslim and she married a Muslim at 20 purely because they weren't allowed to see each other otherwise. They couldn't share a hotel room and they couldn't do much really without an escort until they were married.

I attended their Nikah and my niece barely attended because she was 'given away' by her father in the day ceremony although obviously she consented. It's a bizarre one to watch, the men attend the ceremony and women attend in a different room. She basically just turned up for the night do and that was it which we found quite sad for her.

They've since broken up and she needs to get a divorce but she can't do it so easily because he has to grant it and then I can only presume that they'll have to petition it to the Sharia court and who knows what that involves.

They didn't legally marry so she also has no marriage rights in UK law and alongside the breakup the whole thing is causing her massive amounts of stress and embarassment. She's basically treated like a pariah within that element of the community who knows his family.

This is the reality for Muslim women. It's obviously their choice but sometimes I'm not so sure because as with all religions it's enforced and indoctrinated upon young people, especially socially. Again I get it's their choice but it's just very alien to everything I believe in.

Post of the thread. What a desperately sad and indeed terrible, terrible situation in 21st century UK. My heart goes out to her.

I took the time some while back to actually read the Qur'an so I would know what I was taking about, and apart from finding the thing badly structured and *incredibly*, mind-numbingly repetitive, I was appalled at bits of it, especially women's rights.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Government have said “that it will not negotiate on pay” according to the BMA. 5 days of strikes announced from 25th.

I have some sympathy for Wes Streeting. Although his politics are 1,000 miles left of mine, I think he's genuinely trying to make things better and having treated the Doctors well last year, now this. He must be beyond pissed off.

 

[stonerblue]

Post of the thread. What a desperately sad and indeed terrible, terrible situation in 21st century UK. My heart goes out to her.

I took the time some while back to actually read the Qur'an so I would know what I was taking about, and apart from finding the thing badly structured and *incredibly*, mind-numbingly repetitive, I was appalled at bits of it, especially women's rights.

How is it post of the thread? Not even on-topic.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Swings and roundabouts. While the rich do pay more tax in percentage terms, their wealth opens up all sorts of opportunities with regards to tax avoidance. People who aren't rich don't have that luxury.

True enough, although the left will have none of it and just advocate ever higher taxes upon them, assuming that just brings in ever more money.

I've known about the Laffer Curve for many years but never really thought about the nuances. That video I posted yesterday pointed one such out. There's an optimistic rate of tax that brings in the most amount of money (obviously, since both 0% rate and 100% rate yield zero tax revenue. That much i knew.

Therefore, also obvious when you think about it: either side of that optimal rate are two other rates, 1 higher and 1 lower, but both yield the same tax receipts. CLEARLY we should choose the lower of the two rates for any desired amount of taxation.

The only question then becomes what is this "optimal" rate. Since the actual marginal income tax + NI rate is already 47%, I find it hard to believe there is much if any scope to push it higher. A view supported by anecdotal evidence regards changes to the top rate and the receipts actually achieved. The pips are already squeaked.

 

[Chippy_boy]

How is it post of the thread? Not even on-topic.

Ok post of another thread.

 

[stonerblue]

Ok post of another thread.

Do we have a thread called, 'I read the Qu'ran' ? It could go there.

 

[Chippy_boy]

There is then the cost to mental health, general health, the wellbeing of young people... Forget austerity, COVID has certainly left a much bigger scar than we would admit.

Not to mention productivity. On welfare costs alone, we'd be relatively speaking laughing economically if we could "just" get welfare spending back to pre-COVID levels. Rachel Reeves would think it was Christmas. COVID has absolutely trashed our economy in so many ways.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Do we have a thread called, 'I read the Qu'ran' ? It could go there.

I thought you'd like the light relief from 100% slagging off the shockingly awful government we've been lumbered with. Still, happy to get back on topic if you like.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Isn’t it because he is rich himself, like others advocating to keep their taxes lower?

Nope, it isn't. It's because I have an ounce of principles unlike most on here.

To be explicitly clear: Increased top rate of tax would be great for me personally. A wealth tax would be great for me personally. I just don't believe in either.

Nor cutting the Cash ISA tax free allowance, nor the increased Employers NI, nor IHT on family farms, nor any other such shite. All of which cost me not a penny.

I am merely opposed to stupid policies. Is that ok?

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Where did you read that, Socialist Worker?

The vast majority of FTSE100 companies do pay corporation tax. There are some notable dodgers - like Starbucks - but that is the exception, not the norm.

PwC Total Tax Contribution (2023/24):

• Collected data from the "100 Group" (largest 100 UK-listed companies), showing almost all paid some corporation tax. The fact that corp tax accounted for ~33% of total taxes borne (with nearly £10 bn of CT out of £31.8 bn total) suggests very few—likely under 5–10%—paid zero.

No, I saw an article admittedly a few years back, but why would they change that much? This isn't the exact article as the one I read was just before covid, but you get the picture.

The real corporate tax scandal

Western governments have finally begun to pay close attention to tax avoidance by multinational corporations in rich countries. But where, Cambridge Judge

www.cam.ac.uk

Is Starbucks listed on the London Stock exchange?

Many British companies have "HQs" in the ROI, The Channel Islands, Luxembourg and the Caymen Islands. Their is only one reason for this. To avoid paying UK corporation tax.

Not really a surprise when corporation tax in the UK is 25% , twice what it is in the ROI.

Imo it's better to have 12.5% of £100m then 0% of £100m.

That's why imo we need a two pronged approach, we should be taxing big corporations on their TO and at the same time lowering corporation tax to be more competitive. Carrot and stick.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Nope, it isn't. It's because I have an ounce of principles unlike most on here.

To be explicitly clear: Increased top rate of tax would be great for me personally. A wealth tax would be great for me personally. I just don't believe in either.

Nor cutting the Cash ISA tax free allowance, nor the increased Employers NI, nor IHT on family farms, nor any other such shite. All of which cost me not a penny.

I am merely opposed to stupid policies. Is that ok?

Although you’re much more conservative than me I agree on the top rate of tax not rising. I also think we should be going back increasing the tax thresholds, thus stopping the stealth tax that governments of all persuasions seem wedded to, as it’s easy money.

However, if we want to maintain public services never mind improve them and improve productivity we will need to start thinking differently about raising revenues.

The super rich have been accumulating money at a faster rate than any time in history, whilst our public services have been decimated.

There are quite a lot of things we could do and we could do them quickly.

Reforming the tax system is top of the list as it’s currently riddled with loopholes that make no sense. Mr Sunak, for example, paid a true tax rate of 23% on earnings of £2.2M in 2023, a lower effective rate than many in this country.
Income tax raise about 50% of total government tax receipts, while taxes related to wealth, such as capital gains and stamp duty, bring in less than 5% of tax receipts, which doesn’t seem right.

A 2% tax on assets over £10M doesn’t seem hugely outrageous and would raise over £20B a year.
Reform CGT as ours is currently the lowest in the G7 and bring them into line with income tax rates.
Apply National Insurance to investment income. Currently National Insurance is paid on income from work but not investment, such as dividends from shares, rent from property, and interest on savings. This means that landlords who don’t have a mortgage, earning huge sums of money during a housing crisis, are paying a lower tax rate than their renters whose only income is from their job. This would simplify the tax system’s treatment of different types of income and ensure that income from wealth is taxed at the same rate as earnings from work.
Tax company buybacks at 4% as that would encourage firms to invest instead of funnelling cash into shareholders (and their own) pockets. The water industry is a great example.
Properly tax private jets, the biggest polluters in aviation.
Mandate that multinational businesses operating in the UK to publish a breakdown of exactly how much income, profit and tax they generate here and in all other countries – known as ‘public country by country reporting’ (pCbCR). The UK government agreed this was merited in 2016, but has yet to implement this power. Increasing numbers of nations are mandating pCbCR – from the EU to Australia – where there is evidence of reduced use of tax havens and profit shifting, and increased effective tax rates and domestic tax revenue mobilisation. The UK must follow suit – not just to raise significant revenue, but to restore its credibility as a global leader in tackling tax abuse.

Finally, properly fund and resource HMRC to simply tax, tackle tax abuse and unfair tax reliefs.

These are, of course, all things that the Labour Party could and should be advocating and yet they go after welfare, as usual.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

I genuinely think you are worrying about the wrong things Chippy. I think it was you who said that probably the biggest challenge we face is AI and I think that's true in that we have no grip on the technology and no meaningful policy/governance frameworks or competency for it. To me that's a clear and present danger we should be focusing on. We're going to need a fundamentally different way of thinking if AI is not to cause chaos and that's nothing to do with immigrants. The birthrate is a demographic timebomb that could potentially cause us huge problems around the number of working age people v retirees. That's likely to happen at least a 100 years earlier than any majority Muslim population even if you use parameters/maths that artificially accelerate the growth rate of Muslim people in the UK. The reduction in birthrate below the sustainable level is the result of a number of complex cultural, economic and policy factors which really do need to be discussed as we are sleepwalking into a bad situation but immigration isn't really a key influencer there, if anything it'll need to be a mitigator the way things are going.

So I'm really not sure there is a slippy slope to be worried about; but even if there is there are so many more material issues that are more pressing. Focusing on immigration and Islamist threats feels like chasing perceived shadows when there's threats stood straight in front of us staring us in the face. I just don't understand why that's a thing we should be anxious about in the face of all the other stuff.

Because the likes of Jenrick and Farage say so, backed up by many in the media.

This incessant need to focus on migration does 2 things. Takes the focus off previous governments performance and sets a narrative for those with a certain inclination, to follow.

 

[threespires]

Because the likes of Jenrick and Farage say so, backed up by many in the media.

This incessant need to focus on migration does 2 things. Takes the focus off previous governments performance and sets a narrative for those with a certain inclination, to follow.

I'd add a third, not just previous performance but also deflection from the more difficult areas where we need to be taking action now that plenty of vested interests oppose.

 

[hilts]

Do we have a thread called, 'I read the Qu'ran' ? It could go there.

It would be a short one.

 

[metalblue]

I have some sympathy for Wes Streeting. Although his politics are 1,000 miles left of mine, I think he's genuinely trying to make things better and having treated the Doctors well last year, now this. He must be beyond pissed off.

I like Streeting, he is a politician across his brief.

 

[blueinsa]

It’s neither. It’s just shouting insults and narratives at each other constantly.

Which was never an issue seemingly until now?

 

[Vic]

Wow talk about not wanting to open your mind to different ways of thinking!!

Anyway the laffer model is only really applicable in economic models where there is a flat rate of tax all pay on everything rather than a progressive tax model, so whilst interesting in theory it’s not great in practice. But you’d know that if you bothered to learn something by watching it!!

What if I knew that already?

You've just accused me of not having an open mind about a theory that you then say is not great in practice.

 

[madloaf]

It would be a short one.

It'd be as short as the "I read the Bible" one I imagine, unless you count that blue hymn book with the mouth-opened kid on it. (i've aged myself there i feel).

 

[metalblue]

What if I knew that already?

You've just accused me of not having an open mind about a theory that you then say is not great in practice.

Come on Vic, you’d have said I don’t need to watch it, not I’m not watching that and then asked what it was all about. Nice try though ;)