The Labour Government

[blueinsa]

But everyone pays, so even all the cash in hand twats have to spend it and will pay a share on it, unfortunately you’ll never please everyone.

You could apply a different vat rate to luxury goods.

 

[Blue Maverick]

You could apply a different vat rate to luxury goods.

Whats a luxury these days, having a drink in town is £6 these days! But I get what you mean as someone pointed out earlier maybe anything over say £300 and possibly a higher rate for stupid things like supercars etc

 

[ganganvince]

Sorry I'm confused.

When Labour came in they said it was a 20Bn black hole, they then introduced policies to fill the black hole. According to the above in May it was reported that it was a 60Bn hole but now its 41.2Bn ?

So 20Bn - (income from changes) = 41.2Bn doesn't that mean its grown by more than 21.2Bn in 12 months ?

Surely thats not positive news.

Don't forget the NI etc changes were to fill the 20b black hole and allow extra spending.

 

[Blue Maverick]

Sorry I'm confused.

When Labour came in they said it was a 20Bn black hole, they then introduced policies to fill the black hole. According to the above in May it was reported that it was a 60Bn hole but now its 41.2Bn ?

So 20Bn - (income from changes) = 41.2Bn doesn't that mean its grown by more than 21.2Bn in 12 months ?

Surely thats not positive news.

I think their calculators are broke or maybe just fucking incompetent

 

[Chippy_boy]

Sorry I'm confused.

When Labour came in they said it was a 20Bn black hole, they then introduced policies to fill the black hole. According to the above in May it was reported that it was a 60Bn hole but now its 41.2Bn ?

So 20Bn - (income from changes) = 41.2Bn doesn't that mean its grown by more than 21.2Bn in 12 months ?

Surely thats not positive news.

No it means it's grown by £41.2bn - using your figures. Because the last budget raised sufficient funds to plug the original alleged £20bn.

Reeves will claim it's all not her fault but entirely a result of world events. I'm not so unreasonable to suggest world events have played no part in this, but clearly they cannot be used to blame all of it either.

What is axiomatic is that you don't generate growth by making it more expensive and more risky to hire people, and that's what she (and Rayner) did last Autumn. We don't generate growth by penalising rich entrepreneurs. Labour came in on a growth agenda, making this THE most important priority, so it is bizarre that they should have introduced policies which crush it.

We are simply reaping what Reeves has sowed.

 

[blueinsa]

Not if it's done on higher values items-say above £300. Chuck in VAT on private healthcare and VAT on fuel for private jets. I would also have higher VAT on high usage of gas/electricity. A friend of my brother has an indoor pool that is heated the whole winter at a cost of approx £8000, yet he still pays the same rate of VAT as you and me for normal heating. Not sure at what level the rise should kick in but there are ways to make the higher users pay a bit more. The same bloke is all in favour of a "wealth" tax, although what counts as wealth is a moot point. He reckons he could pay 20% and would barely notice.

Completely agree

 

[Chippy_boy]

Ye I always think that, maybe a fairer way is put VAT up then everyone pays their fair share, Labour should’ve been honest from the start and said look it’s a shit show worse than we thought and we are going to have to go back on a few promises, at least then everyone would know where they stood

That would be a bad idea tbh, since poor people are more adversely affected. Put income tax up and poor are protected by the personal allowance, and you can even raise the personal allowance to compensate. If taxes must go up - as seems inevitable - then IMO she should put up income tax. But not only the top rate, all the rates so everyone shares the burden.

 

[Metal Biker]

The Tories didn't tell them about even more hidden black holes, all Downing St staff have been told not to open any more drawers under any circumstances. The Gardner has also had his spade confiscated.

They didn't!? God they are so sneaky! Thank god for Labour! ;)

 

[Chippy_boy]

You could apply a different vat rate to luxury goods.

I'm surprised at you saying that. Flawed Labour ideology thinks increasing taxes just raises money with no adverse consequences. Of course that's not true.

For every 100 people buying e.g. a yacht there will be 1 who doesn't care what it costs - and who you could tax as you suggest. But 99 who absolutely do. Putting taxes up stops them buying things, and guess what, depresses growth. Typical Labour flawed ideology in action.

 

[BigJoe#1]

Don't forget the NI etc changes were to fill the 20b black hole and allow extra spending.

Will the standard response to questions on the economy now change from opening with

".... this mess we inherited from the previous government"

to

".... this mess we have created in our first year in office",

Because, that ladies and gentlemen is the truth!

 

[blueinsa]

I'm surprised at you saying that. Flawed Labour ideology thinks increasing taxes just raises money with no adverse consequences. Of course that's not true.

For ever 100 people buying e.g. a yacht there will be 1 who doesn't care what it costs - and who you could tax as you suggest. But 99 who absolutely do. Putting taxes up stops them buying things, and guess what, depresses growth. Typical Labour flawed ideology in action.

I don’t believe those in the market for real luxury items are put off buying at all mate as they clearly have the wealth to do so.

I wanted an Omega and bought one. It could well have been more expensive due to a higher tax sales rate but I would still have bought it.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I don’t believe those in the market for real luxury items are put off buying at all mate as they clearly have the wealth to do so.

I wanted an Omega and bought one. It could well have been more expensive due to a higher tax sales rate but I would still have bought it.

That's plainly true of some people but you cannot argue that everyone is price insensitive. Price - volume elasticity is not just a theory!

Clearly you decided you could afford your Omega. Someone else might be pondering it and it's on the very limit of what they are prepared to pay... prices go up and then they decide it's just too expensive.

I think it's inarguable that increasing VAT on some luxury goods would depress sales to some extent. You may say not much. That's where we differ I think.

 

[hampshireblue]

Will the standard response to questions on the economy now change from opening with

".... this mess we inherited from the previous government"

to

".... this mess we have created in our first year in office",

Because, that ladies and gentlemen is the truth!

Or just your warped opinion. It took 14 years to get into the mess and you blame 12 months for everything. They have made mistakes but it is going to take time. If it's still as bad in 4 years, come back and have a go. In the meantime try coming up with something constructive as many on here have tried to do.

 

[hampshireblue]

I don’t believe those in the market for real luxury items are put off buying at all mate as they clearly have the wealth to do so.

I wanted an Omega and bought one. It could well have been more expensive due to a higher tax sales rate but I would still have bought it.

Or buying a new TV, does another £40-£50 in VAT really influence the decision?

 

[blueinsa]

Or buying a new TV, does another £40-£50 in VAT really influence the decision?

As Ive stated above, in my opinion it doesn’t on many items.

A £15 jacket from Tesco F&F is not a Louis Vuitton jacket costing £3000 and if you are in that market, is £3100 putting you off it?

Not in my opinion it is.

 

[ganganvince]

Will the standard response to questions on the economy now change from opening with

".... this mess we inherited from the previous government"

to

".... this mess we have created in our first year in office",

Because, that ladies and gentlemen is the truth!

Credit were its due though there was a plan from the leadership to cut welfare spending that would have helped but back benches cut their legs off.

 

[hilts]

There has been more out of the box and good ideas for tax increase in the last couple of pages than our govts have managed to come up with for decades.

We need a new way not sure who can deliver it.

 

[hilts]

Credit were its due though there was a plan from the leadership to cut welfare spending that would have helped but back benches cut their legs off.

A billion off grannies and a few more from the disabled wouldn't have cut it. At the end of the day they have a job to do and are well paid, wtf do they do all day.

 

[hilts]

Or buying a new TV, does another £40-£50 in VAT really influence the decision?

I believe some of the very wealthy will watch TV through Curry's window rather than pay an extra couple of hundred quid for the 60 inch TV in the games room.

 

[hampshireblue]

There has been more out of the box and good ideas for tax increase in the last couple of pages than our govts have managed to come up with for decades.

We need a new way not sure who can deliver it.

Someone phoned in to LBC and had identical suggestions as mine and on a voluntary state pension "buyout" for those with a healthy personal pension They were met with almost universal approval from listeners. I'm (they're) still waiting for the call from Rachael. lol