The Labour Party

[metalblue]

It would cost an insane amount of money to get the same class sizes and facilities in state schools.

There's nothing at all aspirational about the majority of kids being excluded from a pathway to many of the best paid jobs in society. The link between private schools and top positions in the law etc., is truly shocking.

I'd go a step further, and limit access to the better university courses and publicly appointed positions, so that it more closely reflected the percentage of kids going to private schools.

Giving an intelligent kid, from a poorer background, the knowledge that they would be able to go to Oxford and become a High Court judge based on their ability, rather than their parents finances, is truly aspirational.

It’s a common misconception about private education in the UK, elite private school kids are more likely to have those top jobs (and these are the parents who can afford the ~£50k a year fees and won’t care about VAT) but the “regular” private schools whose fees are far more modest by comparison (~15k a year) - the output of those schools are as likely to be doctors in our hospitals or teachers as those from state school (perhaps more likely in the sense they received a “better” education due to class size).

To your point about the cost of improving state education - education needs a complete rethink; not everyone is academic we should be doing practical courses for those who want to be tradespeople from the GCSE year onwards, math lessons should be about quotes, English about writing business letters, then teach them the skills to do the job - save them going to college - they can be put earning (and paying taxes) much sooner. This will reduce the cost of getting class size down for the more academic kids and then we make that investment in their education - it’s not a zero sum game, the better educated the more (in principle) they pay in taxes. That’s aspirational for our young. But yeah nothing like as aspirational as raising taxes on private schools eh? maintains the status quo while rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic is the way to go.

Oh and Oxbridge already makes it easier for kids from disadvantaged backgrounds to get in compared to those that went to private schools.

 

[TinFoilHat]

The party that protects the workers and the downtrodden hence the name "Labour"

They should just change their name to Purple Conservative Party. They offer nothing to the people that created them to protect their interests. The vast majority of Purple Tory MPs only care about themselves. Any member that says that to their face is expelled using false slurs against them.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

It’s a common misconception about private education in the UK, elite private school kids are more likely to have those top jobs (and these are the parents who can afford the ~£50k a year fees and won’t care about VAT) but the “regular” private schools whose fees are far more modest by comparison (~15k a year) - the output of those schools are as likely to be doctors in our hospitals or teachers as those from state school (perhaps more likely in the sense they received a “better” education due to class size).

To your point about the cost of improving state education - education needs a complete rethink; not everyone is academic we should be doing practical courses for those who want to be tradespeople from the GCSE year onwards, math lessons should be about quotes, English about writing business letters, then teach them the skills to do the job - save them going to college - they can be put earning (and paying taxes) much sooner. This will reduce the cost of getting class size down for the more academic kids and then we make that investment in their education - it’s not a zero sum game, the better educated the more (in principle) they pay in taxes. That’s aspirational for our young. But yeah nothing like as aspirational as raising taxes on private schools eh? maintains the status quo while rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic is the way to go.

Oh and Oxbridge already makes it easier for kids from disadvantaged backgrounds to get in compared to those that went to private schools.

How much do you get paid to lobby for private schools? ;)

 

[metalblue]

I don't think you can pin it (the advantages) down to one or two things. You obviously have better funded facilities, smaller class sizes and more attractive pay/ conditions for staff (so they can pick the best). Also though, the fact that as paying customers the parents are literally more invested in their kids education, or have at least thoroughly outsourced it to folk who are. Contrast that with the portion of the class in state schools whose parents don't give a fuck, view education as cheap childcare and then blame teachers for their kids being little cunts.

I don’t think the pay is any better but they are less likely to get punched…probably

 

[metalblue]

How much do you get paid to lobby for private schools? ;)

Nowt mate. It’s part of my community pay back sentence ;)

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

It’s a common misconception about private education in the UK, elite private school kids are more likely to have those top jobs (and these are the parents who can afford the ~£50k a year fees and won’t care about VAT) but the “regular” private schools whose fees are far more modest by comparison (~15k a year) - the output of those schools are as likely to be doctors in our hospitals or teachers as those from state school (perhaps more likely in the sense they received a “better” education due to class size).

To your point about the cost of improving state education - education needs a complete rethink; not everyone is academic we should be doing practical courses for those who want to be tradespeople from the GCSE year onwards, math lessons should be about quotes, English about writing business letters, then teach them the skills to do the job - save them going to college - they can be put earning (and paying taxes) much sooner. This will reduce the cost of getting class size down for the more academic kids and then we make that investment in their education - it’s not a zero sum game, the better educated the more (in principle) they pay in taxes. That’s aspirational for our young. But yeah nothing like as aspirational as raising taxes on private schools eh? maintains the status quo while rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic is the way to go.

Oh and Oxbridge already makes it easier for kids from disadvantaged backgrounds to get in compared to those that went to private schools.

I agree education needs a rethink and it should be about making children be the best they can be, at whatever it is they’re doing.
On the Oxbridge makes it easier, state schools make up about 70% of Oxbridge entrants which, on the face of it, looks quite good. Then when you see that less than 6% of children go to private schools, it doesn’t look quite so good.
20 Prime Ministers went to Eton and 30 to Oxford whilst we’ve had SIX Labour Prime Ministers ever..

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I agree education needs a rethink and it should be about making children be the best they can be, at whatever it is they’re doing.
On the Oxbridge makes it easier, state schools make up about 70% of Oxbridge entrants which, on the face of it, looks quite good. Then when you see that less than 6% of children go to private schools, it doesn’t look quite so good.
20 Prime Ministers went to Eton and 30 to Oxford whilst we’ve had SIX Labour Prime Ministers ever..

I agree that privately educated folk have an advantage and the stats you quote bear that out. Without wanting to sound too Jordan Peterson, what do we want to address - equality of opportunity or equality of outcome?

 

[BrianW]

Finland manages without any private schools at all, and has one of the best, if not the best, education systems in Europe.

Private education is part of the pernicious class system which holds this country back and prevents its development as a 21st-century state. It comes down to a belief that some people (and their children) are 'special' and should not be required to mingle with plebs like us. Until we develop a more egalitarian society we will never maximise the talent and potential of our people and will remain, effectively, clinging to 19th-century fantasy England. We shall certainly never match the productivity and social harmony of more advanced nations.

 

[TinFoilHat]

I agree that privately educated folk have an advantage and the stats you quote bear that out. Without wanting to sound too Jordan Peterson, what do we want to address - equality of opportunity or equality of outcome?

Off topic here.

I can't listen to Peterson because he sounds like Kermit the Frog.

 

[Vic]

It’s a common misconception about private education in the UK, elite private school kids are more likely to have those top jobs (and these are the parents who can afford the ~£50k a year fees and won’t care about VAT) but the “regular” private schools whose fees are far more modest by comparison (~15k a year) - the output of those schools are as likely to be doctors in our hospitals or teachers as those from state school (perhaps more likely in the sense they received a “better” education due to class size).

To your point about the cost of improving state education - education needs a complete rethink; not everyone is academic we should be doing practical courses for those who want to be tradespeople from the GCSE year onwards, math lessons should be about quotes, English about writing business letters, then teach them the skills to do the job - save them going to college - they can be put earning (and paying taxes) much sooner. This will reduce the cost of getting class size down for the more academic kids and then we make that investment in their education - it’s not a zero sum game, the better educated the more (in principle) they pay in taxes. That’s aspirational for our young. But yeah nothing like as aspirational as raising taxes on private schools eh? maintains the status quo while rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic is the way to go.

Oh and Oxbridge already makes it easier for kids from disadvantaged backgrounds to get in compared to those that went to private schools.

So you disagree with Birnalsingh that schools should be teaching knowledge to disadvantaged children and not learning skills....

(That should be a good fight within the Tory ranks.)