The Labour Party

[inbetween]

A lesson I learned the harsh way just the other day.

I commented on Bidens decreasing memory and lack of cognitive function and within seconds, I was a dumb motherfucker who was responsible for handing the keys to the Whitehouse to the Orange man.

With all that power, I quickly decided it was time to try and will my wife into putting the kettle on and you can only imagine my disappointment as I was brought back down to Earth with a bump as she told me to do it myself.

Unfortunately this is the virus that has afflicted people. Political identity now reigns over pretty much everything where you cannot have a sensible discussion, if you oppose you're just branded as part of the other view. Labour right now are controlled by the centrist element of the party and that hopefully puts them into 'normality' territory.

We desperately need normality really, a period where politicians quietly do work and do 'things' without us needing to argue about them. We don't need more years arguing and getting nowhere over something like Brexit.

On virtually every single issue we just need a sensible discussion and an outcome that is best for everyone and that can only be achieved by a government led by the centre. The fringes at either extreme won't like it but so what? If Starmer comes to be hated by both the left and right then he is probably doing a great job by the country.

This country has been led astray by the minority ideologies of the far left and far right for way too long.

 

[BayernMan]

Unfortunately this is the virus that has afflicted people. Political identity now reigns over pretty much everything where you cannot have a sensible discussion, if you oppose you're just branded as part of the other view. Labour right now are controlled by the centrist element of the party and that hopefully puts them into 'normality' territory.

We desperately need normality really, a period where politicians quietly do work and do 'things' without us needing to argue about them. We don't need more years arguing and getting nowhere over something like Brexit.

On virtually every single issue we just need a sensible discussion and an outcome that is best for everyone and that can only be achieved by a government led by the centre. The fringes at either extreme won't like it but so what? If Starmer comes to be hated by both the left and right then he is probably doing a great job by the country.

This country has been led astray by the minority ideologies of the far left and far right for way too long.

Who on the far left has ever had power in the UK? Seriously, You would think the UK is in its current mess because it went broke trying to food poor children or fund the NHS, but then one remembers decades of austerity. This is how the far right to center right have such a control in UK and western politics in general. The “both sides” talk usually stifles any semblance of progressive policy that actually has never been implemented, but the right wing floods the zone in the media and they get off Scott free while “the left” is blamed for immigration for leaving “open borders” or “taxing the Uber rich too much”.

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

Who on the far left has ever had power in the UK? Seriously, You would think the UK is in its current mess because it went broke trying to food poor children or fund the NHS, but then one remembers decades of austerity. This is how the far right to center right have such a control in UK and western politics in general. The “both sides” talk usually stifles any semblance of progressive policy that actually has never been implemented, but the right wing floods the zone in the media and they get off Scott free while “the left” is blamed for immigration for leaving “open borders” or “taxing the Uber rich too much”.

I agree, this country has never been far left of centre - and it's not likely to be in the short-term, and that's because we are one of the most conservative nations going (using conservative in the true sense of the word here and not to mean right wing). We are allergic to radical ideas, and that has its pros, but in the long run it will leave you behind.

The daft thing is that arguably our most left-wing PM who implemented the most radical ideas of the last 100 years features in most people's top 3 prime ministers of all time. The only reason he was allowed to implement those was because of the exceptional circumstances of post-war Britain.

I do hold out some hope that the next generation are a little more ambitious and willing to take a risk, because the economy being stacked against them has forced them to think in those terms.

 

[BayernMan]

I agree, this country has never been far left of centre - and it's not likely to be in the short-term, and that's because we are one of the most conservative nations going (using conservative in the true sense of the word here and not to mean right wing). We are allergic to radical ideas, and that has its pros, but in the long run it will leave you behind.

The daft thing is that arguably our most left-wing PM who implemented the most radical ideas of the last 100 years features in most people's top 3 prime ministers of all time. The only reason he was allowed to implement those was because of the exceptional circumstances of post-war Britain.

I do hold out some hope that the next generation are a little more ambitious and willing to take a risk, because the economy being stacked against them has forced them to think in those terms.

I also hold my hope for younger folks because their economic outlooks will be completely different to what their predecessors who lived through just after the Second World War.

Income inequality has become dangerously high that many young people will never have the opportunity to own a home or accumulate wealth and capital like their predecessors. That is usually why people become more conservative as they grow older because they have something to conserve.

However, the current system in our current era leaves out many people from this prosperity, so many young people will not grow conservative as they get older cause they have nothing. What would be scarier is if more people have nothing to lose cause I hate to see that dystopian future.

But to still hear people talk about “both sides” in the UK/US especially reeks of right wing propaganda because we are still banging on about giving money to billionaires ie “wealth creators” to solve our problems yet complaining that we spend too much on feeding poor kids and healthcare when that is far from the truth.

Can anyone here give me a “far left” idea(s) that has crippled the US/UK in the last twenty or thirty years? Empowering unions? Providing healthcare? Education? Free broadband? Feeding poor children? Rise in minimum wage?worker protections? Wealth tax? DEI? Wokeness? Which far left ideas have harmed us?

 

[BayernMan]

Rhetoric Starmer is quietly or unknowingly endorsing.

 

[inbetween]

Who on the far left has ever had power in the UK? Seriously, You would think the UK is in its current mess because it went broke trying to food poor children or fund the NHS, but then one remembers decades of austerity. This is how the far right to center right have such a control in UK and western politics in general. The “both sides” talk usually stifles any semblance of progressive policy that actually has never been implemented, but the right wing floods the zone in the media and they get off Scott free while “the left” is blamed for immigration for leaving “open borders” or “taxing the Uber rich too much”.

The opposition was led only 5 years ago by someone subscribed to the far left. He was a serial protester who would of destroyed the interests of middle England in a heartbeat. Middle England is where the vast majority of voters sit, none of these people are billionaires, they're normal people with homes and families.

Corbyn's ilk was for example literally against property ownership so why would any sane homeowner ever vote for him and his ideology? Home ownership is obviously not a far right idea but according to the left it may as well be. They're also against having nuclear weapons and being part of NATO, that sounds a good idea at the moment doesn't it?

Generally when people turn 30 they become more conservative because they begin to accumulate wealth and they want to keep that wealth. The far left only hold policies that aim to take that away and because the rich can just move elsewhere middle England becomes their natural target.

I'll just repeat that people want a normal party in power, one which represents everyone and yes that includes the poor, rich and businesses too, businesses are something else that Corbyn would of decimated. I want to see a sensible and measured government and not some ideologically driven protest movement.

 

[BayernMan]

The opposition was led only 5 years ago by someone subscribed to the far left. He was a serial protester who would of destroyed the interests of middle England in a heartbeat. Middle England is where the vast majority of voters sit, none of these people are billionaires, they're normal people with homes and families.

Corbyn's ilk was for example literally against property ownership so why would any sane homeowner ever vote for him and his ideology? Home ownership is obviously not a far right idea but according to the left it may as well be. They're also against having nuclear weapons and being part of NATO, that sounds a good idea at the moment doesn't it?

Generally when people turn 30 they become more conservative because they begin to accumulate wealth and they want to keep that wealth. The far left only hold policies that aim to take that away wealth and when the rich just move elsewhere middle England becomes their natural target.

I'll just repeat that people want a normal party in power, one which represents everyone and yes that includes the poor, rich and businesses too, businesses are something else that Corbyn would of decimated. I want to see a sensible and measured government and not some ideologically driven protest movement.

You still didn’t address my first point? Has the UK reached its current condition because of “far left” policies or austerity?

But I appreciate you reminding us of all the things that may have been done but were obviously not this past decade and a half…

 

[inbetween]

You still didn’t address my first point? Has the UK reached its current condition because of “far left” policies or austerity?

But I appreciate you reminding us of all the things that may have been done but were obviously not this past decade and a half…

I totally agree that austerity has caused problems and driven the country down. I'm not in favour of austerity but unlike those on the far left I am in favour of controlling spending. Viewing spending control in the lens of left or right is stupid, it's again attaching political identity for absolutely no reason.

Starmer plans to essentially continue austerity purely because he's not going to massively increase spending. So does that mean he's far right? Does it balls.

The reason why we need to control spending (control spending vs stop spending) is obvious. Did you know that the defence budget is smaller than the amount that we pay every year in debt interest?

 

[Postman Pep]

How far are we going back here?



and how long before the net closies in on Keith?

 

[BayernMan]

I totally agree that austerity has caused problems and driven the country down. I'm not in favour of austerity but unlike those on the far left I am in favour of controlling spending. Viewing spending control in the lens of left or right is stupid, it's again attaching political identity for absolutely no reason.

Starmer plans to essentially continue austerity purely because he's not going to massively increase spending. So does that mean he's far right? Does it balls.

The reason why we need to control spending (control spending vs stop spending) is obvious. Did you know that the defence budget is smaller than the amount that we pay every year in debt interest?

I have no qualms with fiscal responsibility. I don’t believe rich or poor should be getting freebies from the state without a lot of scrutiny. Unfortunately in our current political climate any “wealth creator” can go to our halls of government and be given a big bag of cash that will “trickle down” by the state while the poor man is asked to be content his lord allows him to sleep outside his gates.

Our current system favors capital and wealth and promotes those who have the most of it to the detriment of the rest. I’m happy to have conversations on fiscal responsibility after we have finished promoting systems which favors wealth over the prosperity of the rest of society.