The official EDS and academy thread 2012/13

[The Man With The Stick]

any one remember villa at home?these two were underwhelming,not saying they havent got talent,but i was dissapointed,they did not grasp that chance,

Yeh, wasn't great but you can't judge a young player on one match. They're probably gonna run round like headless chickens tryin too hard to impress.
Plus, that whole team was fairly young... i'd rather see them slotting into a more experienced side.
Aston Villa are sufferin from that this season... great young talent but no one with experience to marshal them.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

The difference between us and the rags is that Fergie has a submarine full of yes men managing in the prem and the lower leagues who will take his youth prospects and play them in fear of upsetting him and either getting the boot or no help off him in the future.

mancini has none of this help.

 

[dadnlad]

The difference between us and the rags is that Fergie has a submarine full of yes men managing in the prem and the lower leagues who will take his youth prospects and play them in fear of upsetting him and either getting the boot or no help off him in the future.

mancini has none of this help.

nail on the head
the season he was aloud to loan two top keepers out to premiership clubs

 

[woahmark]

I think the bad season hasn't helped as well - failing to qualify for the Europa League has hampered youth players chances. Playing in just two competitions means there's no point for Mancini to rest players. Hopefully Razak and Suarez get game time against Norwich, Reading and Wigan - if 2nd place is pretty much secured.

 

[Nelly's Left Foot]

I keep goin back to the pre-season games on the OS and watchin Suarez. He looks so comfortable in the team and it's his passing and vision that are most impressive. Surely you can't just lose those qualities??? It has to be boredom or frustration creeping in?
Could the injury he sustained against Wolves also have effected him?

Some of that has to be right but I just cannot agree that his passing has ever been that impressive.He definitely has talent and moves with the ball very well but it's his final pass for me that is lacking and has always been lacking. Vision maybe as he does see things but if you can't make the pass and that means accurately and at the right time is amounts to not very much.

 

[WNRH]

The difference between us and the rags is that Fergie has a submarine full of yes men managing in the prem and the lower leagues who will take his youth prospects and play them in fear of upsetting him and either getting the boot or no help off him in the future.

mancini has none of this help.

nail on the head
the season he was aloud to loan two top keepers out to premiership clubs

Not the case at all.

Razak has spent time at Charlton, Brighton and Portsmouth, 3 good Championship clubs. A mixture of bad attitude and city recalling him is the reason he hasn't progressed.

Boyata spent time at Bolton and Twente, he failed at both.

Wabara failed at Ipswich and Blackpool.

Elabdelloui failed at Feyenoord.

These are all top clubs.

On a side note, Chelsea play Villa in the Next Gen Final. Arsenal defeated in the semi, Spurs in the Quarters, Liverpool in the last 16. City couldn't get out of the group stage for the second season running despite spending more than Aston Villa can afford on their first team players.

 

[Nelly's Left Foot]

You say Razak is reasonably close (even if that is 3 injuries away) but is he really good enough? Is he a top 4 premiership player as I don't think he is.

I think Razak has fantastic raw ability but we're doing nothing to develop that into anything. He neither goes out on proper loan moves (these 1-month emergency loans are awful) or gets game time for our first team or reserves... yet gets called up by an Ivory Coast national team rich in midfield options. And visibly we rate him too highly for the U21s yet not good enough to play regularly in the first team, leaving him in limbo where his football career consists of training.

Of course he is not a genuine top 4 player right now (the same could be said of a few of our first team squad members who actually do get games, though) but I think there is a way to blood in youth players (enabling them to develop more) without sacrificing quality too much, it just has to be handled intelligently - ie. playing them against weaker opposition. We were 3-0 up against Leeds at HT in the FA Cup yet there were no young players anywhere to be found, even on the bench. Would we have suffered if Razak had been given the second 45? Most top clubs find a way so I don't see why we can't. And if we can't we should have him out on loan somewhere useful.

I keep goin back to the pre-season games on the OS and watchin Suarez. He looks so comfortable in the team and it's his passing and vision that are most impressive. Surely you can't just lose those qualities??? It has to be boredom or frustration creeping in?
Could the injury he sustained against Wolves also have effected him?

Youthful petulance and frustration seem to have set in with Suarez. Is it a surprise, whether he's in poor form or not, because he is past the U21 league level and should have been out on loan by now. He'll look at his mate Suso who has managed 18 appearances for Liverpool this season and wonder "Why am I not playing somewhere?". If not City then somewhere... we can find clubs for some really mediocre youth prospects (even Elabdellaoui got a move to Feyenoord - he failed there but he got the chance at least) so there will be one out there for Suarez be it in Germany, Spain, Portugal, or Holland.

Cannot disagree that a loan spell,carefully chosen, is what these players need to improve them and give City a real feel for whether they can make the grade or not. I wonder if we have offered them but nobody fancied them?

I can't imagine that's the case and I hope and expect Razak and Suarez to get a loan for next season.I still don't see Razak as a top prem player.

 

[WNRH]

You say Razak is reasonably close (even if that is 3 injuries away) but is he really good enough? Is he a top 4 premiership player as I don't think he is.

I think Razak has fantastic raw ability but we're doing nothing to develop that into anything. He neither goes out on proper loan moves (these 1-month emergency loans are awful) or gets game time for our first team or reserves... yet gets called up by an Ivory Coast national team rich in midfield options. And visibly we rate him too highly for the U21s yet not good enough to play regularly in the first team, leaving him in limbo where his football career consists of training.

Of course he is not a genuine top 4 player right now (the same could be said of a few of our first team squad members who actually do get games, though) but I think there is a way to blood in youth players (enabling them to develop more) without sacrificing quality too much, it just has to be handled intelligently - ie. playing them against weaker opposition. We were 3-0 up against Leeds at HT in the FA Cup yet there were no young players anywhere to be found, even on the bench. Would we have suffered if Razak had been given the second 45? Most top clubs find a way so I don't see why we can't. And if we can't we should have him out on loan somewhere useful.

I keep goin back to the pre-season games on the OS and watchin Suarez. He looks so comfortable in the team and it's his passing and vision that are most impressive. Surely you can't just lose those qualities??? It has to be boredom or frustration creeping in?
Could the injury he sustained against Wolves also have effected him?

Youthful petulance and frustration seem to have set in with Suarez. Is it a surprise, whether he's in poor form or not, because he is past the U21 league level and should have been out on loan by now. He'll look at his mate Suso who has managed 18 appearances for Liverpool this season and wonder "Why am I not playing somewhere?". If not City then somewhere... we can find clubs for some really mediocre youth prospects (even Elabdellaoui got a move to Feyenoord - he failed there but he got the chance at least) so there will be one out there for Suarez be it in Germany, Spain, Portugal, or Holland.

Cannot disagree that a loan spell,carefully chosen, is what these players need to improve them and give City a real feel for whether they can make the grade or not. I wonder if we have offered them but nobody fancied them?

I can't imagine that's the case and I hope and expect Razak and Suarez to get a loan for next season.I still don't see Razak as a top prem player.

I can imagine that with Suarez, especially in England. In Spain they probably have players like Suarez already. Razak will never be a top prem player either.

 

[bapi]

Razak is stupid. He's more interested in buying Rolls-Royce cars and partying. And Rekik is very similar.

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

any one remember villa at home?these two were underwhelming,not saying they havent got talent,but i was dissapointed,they did not grasp that chance,

I agree with this. What concerns me the most is that in the past most youngsters playing their first match do really well. They usually start strongly and then fade. We have seen no impact at all from any youngsters given their chance for years. The last couple to look half decent on their debuts were Willo Flood and Weiss (Where are they now!) I am optimistic long-term for the future of our Academy project but this current crop of EDS players is a million miles from the standard we need. For my money Razak is nowhere near as good as Dixon Etuhu was at the same age. Dixon became a decent player but not a star. When he was 16 I thought Reece Wabara had a chance but he has also drifted. We are all City fans who want the club to succeed but we should be honest about the current state of our youth set-up. We have gone backwards in this area. Perhaps we have taken our eye off the ball because of the focus on our world class stars. I am sure things will improve but we need to be realistic about our current status.