The Rise of the Far Right

[Aphex]

I would love you to try one of those quiz's on your political bias and based on what you are saying, I predict you are more right than you think you are.

Funnily enough, I did one the other day. And that’s when I came out centre left. I did one 10 years ago on here when there was a big thread on it and guess what… I was centre left. I haven’t changed, THE LEFT have changed.

 

[Mike D]

Funnily enough, I did one the other day. And that’s when I came out centre left. I did one 10 years ago on here when there was a big thread on it and guess what… I was centre left. I haven’t changed, THE LEFT have changed.

That's all this shit you mention about gender and how transgender people identify themselves is very much a hot topic for the right. Something that is constantly prodded by the right wing media as being this big issue. Even Johnson is his desperation tried to smear Starmer with this notion during what has become his weekly hammering at PMQ's. Then there's Bannon who loves to talk about this and woke (another right wing slur no one can define)

Personally I don't give a shit about it I am unashamedly left wing and don't really have a strong opinion on it. Why would anyone gone to all that trouble to become a women just to get inside a female changing room.

 

[Aphex]

That's all this shit you mention about gender and how transgender people identify themselves is very much a hot topic for the right. Something that is constantly prodded by the right wing media as being this big issue. Even Johnson is his desperation tried to smear Starmer with this notion during what has become his weekly hammering at PMQ's. Then there's Bannon who loves to talk about this and woke (another right wing slur no one can define)

Personally I don't give a shit about it I am unashamedly left wing and don't really have a strong opinion on it. Why would anyone gone to all that trouble to become a women just to get inside a female changing room.

Most people aren’t bothered either. I’m happy for people to be whoever they want to be. The issue of putting kids on puberty blockers is for me shocking. How can they know the consequences of such a massive change in their bodies? And why is this high percentage of self identifying kids only on mostly democratic states? Anyone could almost think it was a fad fuelled by social media.

Anyway, can you answer the question I quoted to Rascal? It’s a bit like Schrödinger's cat isn’t it. And that’s why I can’t defend it.

 

[Rascal]

Hi @Rascal. No I don’t read the Telegraph, or any other paper really. I’m not going into all my political beliefs, but I’m against the death penalty and for the welfare state. As for teaching kids under nine (which is the Florida bill) to teach 100 different genders to kids.. no, unnecessarily confusing and harmful. Let me just say this:

what is more patriarchal and misogynistic than a man who now identifies as a woman telling a woman she can’t do anything about ‘her’ going into her private spaces?

That’s how far the left have gone. It’s almost full circle.

I am on the far left and i dont believe in any of that, people get the left mixed up with liberals all the time. the left is not liberal.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Most people aren’t bothered either. I’m happy for people to be whoever they want to be. The issue of putting kids on puberty blockers is for me shocking. How can they know the consequences of such a massive change in their bodies? And why is this high percentage of self identifying kids only on mostly democratic states? Anyone could almost think it was a fad fuelled by social media.

Anyway, can you answer the question I quoted to Rascal? It’s a bit like Schrödinger's cat isn’t it. And that’s why I can’t defend it.

The puberty blockers thing is a very small percentage of children expressing gender dysphoria. Most do not use medical intervention before they are adults.

The Tavistock Centre is the only childrens gender clinic in the UK (two branches, one in London and one in Leeds).

It is probably a bigger issue in America because of their system of privatised medicine.

It’s a complicated issue with young people involved and deserves to be treated with sensitivity for those affected and not as a political wedge issue that encourages abuse and vitriol.

It’s beyond politics and very little to do with social media. In fact that's a well worn myth and they used to say the same thing about homosexuality and Liberal tradional media.

There's also a flaw with your mainly Democratic countries claim, Thailand and the Philippines are not exactly healthy democracies. One has had military coups and the other replaced one corrupt dictator by the son of another.

And yet they have a long cultural tradition of openly gender non conforming people.

 

[Aphex]

The puberty blockers thing is a very small percentage of children expressing gender dysphoria. Most do not use medical intervention before they are adults.

The Tavistock Centre is the only childrens gender clinic in the UK (two branches, one in London and one in Leeds).

It is probably a bigger issue in America because of their system of privatised medicine.

It’s a complicated issue with young people involved and deserves to be treated with sensitivity for those affected and not as a political wedge issue that encourages abuse and vitriol.

It’s beyond politics and very little to do with social media. In fact that's a well worn myth and they used to say the same thing about homosexuality and Liberal tradional media.

There's also a flaw with your mainly Democratic countries claim, Thailand and the Philippines are not exactly healthy democracies. One has had military coups and the other replaced one corrupt dictator by the son of another.

And yet they have a long cultural tradition of openly gender non conforming people.

Well I’ll have to disagree with the social media aspect. Why can’t peoples sexuality be a private thing? Social media and ‘woke’ media is a platform. And they can’t wait to tell us.

I will read about Thailand. That’s not something I expected.

can you answer my question tho? No one has.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Well I’ll have to disagree with the social media aspect. Why can’t peoples sexuality be a private thing? Social media and ‘woke’ media is a platform. And they can’t wait to tell us.

I will read about Thailand. That’s not something I expected.

can you answer my question tho? No one has.

You are making a big claim without presenting evidence... this is something out of the GB News playbook.

What evidence can you supply to support your view that is due to social media?

Your views aren't unique and an earlier more articulated and sophisticated position has already been widely discredited.

Rapid-onset gender dysphoria controversy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You are asking why sexuality can't be a private thing whilst painting a broad brush about young people's medical treatments?

Is that meant to be ironic?

You asked a generalised question but there isn't a generalised answer. Generally it isn't any of your business if you want "people's sexuality to be private" you should also give them the respect of privacy for medical decisions.

But you can read this. Gillick comptence with informed consent and discussion with parents isn't a new thing and isn't unique to gender treatment in adolescent medicine.

In some instances it won't be appropriate for doctors to prescribe blockers and HRT treatment, in others it will be.

Court of Appeal re-affirms ‘Gillick competence’ in GIDS judicial review

The Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust, which leads the national Gender Identity and Development Service (GIDS), has successfully appealed ....

www.mills-reeve.com

 

[Aphex]

You are making a big claim without presenting evidence... this is something out of the GB News playbook.

What evidence can you supply to support your view that is due to social media?

Your views aren't unique and an earlier more articulated and sophisticated position has already been widely discredited.

Rapid-onset gender dysphoria controversy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You are asking why sexuality can't be a private thing whilst painting a broad brush about young people's medical treatments?

Is that meant to be ironic?

You asked a generalised question but there isn't a generalised answer. Generally it isn't any of your business if you want "people's sexuality to be private" you should also give them the respect of privacy for medical decisions.

But you can read this. Gillick comptence with informed consent and discussion with parents isn't a new thing and isn't unique to gender treatment in adolescent medicine.

In some instances it won't be appropriate for doctors to prescribe blockers and HRT treatment, in others it will be.

Court of Appeal re-affirms ‘Gillick competence’ in GIDS judicial review

The Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust, which leads the national Gender Identity and Development Service (GIDS), has successfully appealed ....

www.mills-reeve.com

There are plenty of articles on it. Take a look. You are not going to convince me that changing a young persons sex who can’t even vote is a ‘freedom of choice’ there are people out there that have reverted, and their decision to do so is through regret.

and I’ve been discredited by a more sophisticated argument? How can a personal belief be discredited? It’s my belief and no matter how many left wing publications you quote, it won’t change my mind on what I feel is a moral issue

and you still haven’t answered the question

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

There are plenty of articles on it. Take a look. You are not going to convince me that changing a young persons sex who can’t even vote is a ‘freedom of choice’ there are people out there that have reverted, and their decision to do so is through regret.

and I’ve been discredited by a more sophisticated argument? How can a personal belief be discredited? It’s my belief and no matter how many left wing publications you quote, it won’t change my mind on what I feel is a moral issue

and you still haven’t answered the question

You can read the article and inform yourself of the issues and you can do some research yourself on the wider aspects of gillick competence.

If you weren't already aware, this is the same legal test that covers issues like abortions for girls under the age of 18.

As you well know the right to vote has not been extended to 16 and 17 year olds because the Conservatives would disadvantage themselves. In Scotland because it has the opposite effect for the SNP they have, so it isn't a particularly compelling point.

People that regret gender identity treatment are a minority not the majority. I have talked about the Keira Bell case before and I'm not going to repeat myself in here. You can use the search function if you care enough.

You can have whatever personal belief you want, it doesn't have to be based in fact. To rely on that belief to campaign against others rights and aspects of their private lives it does have to be though.

I have given you an example of an almost identical belief that a professional claimed was based on science, that has been discredited because of their flawed methods of research and use of data.

I have answered your question, just not in the way you feel I should be compelled to. But why would I when I don't accept your false premise?

Finally. Left-wing organisations.

One is wikipedia, broadly liberal but not a website that encourages falsehoods, you post something on there that is shown to be untrue or without supporting evidence and if it gets reported it will get removed.

The other is a website of a law firm providing case analysis, it isn't a political article.

Do you realise how ridiculous you sound when you scape the bottom of the barrel for that line to throw at an article from a law firm?

 

[Aphex]

You can read the article and inform yourself of the issues and you can do some research yourself on the wider aspects of gillick competence.

If you weren't already aware, this is the same legal test that covers issues like abortions for girls under the age of 18.

As you well know the right to vote has not been extended to 16 and 17 year olds because the Conservatives would disadvantage themselves. In Scotland because it has the opposite effect for the SNP they have, so it isn't a particularly compelling point.

People that regret gender identity treatment are a minority not the majority. I have talked about the Keira Bell case before and I'm not going to repeat myself in here. You can use the search function if you care enough.

You can have whatever personal belief you want, it doesn't have to be based in fact. To rely on that belief to campaign against others rights and aspects of their private lives it does have to be though.

I have given you an example of an almost identical belief that a professional claimed was based on science, that has been discredited because of their flawed methods of research and use of data.

I have answered your question, just not in the way you feel I should be compelled to. But why would I when I don't accept your false premise?

Finally. Left-wing organisations.

One is wikipedia, broadly liberal but not a website that encourages falsehoods, you post something on there that is shown to be untrue or without supporting evidence and if it gets reported it will get removed.

The other is a website of a law firm providing case analysis, it isn't a political article.

Do you realise how ridiculous you sound when you scape the bottom of the barrel for that line to throw at an article from a law firm?

It amazes me that people on the left are so presumptuous. I’ve had countless discussions on here about politics and the moral questions are never answered. Mainstream media is left. That should tell you to read between the lines.

I’ve stated my beliefs on the subject and you aren’t going to change my mind via links and quotes that are seated in political ideology. Im not saying that both sides don’t have an ideology, but I’ve made my choice through my own moral questioning. I think we can both agree that that is a valid viewpoint