The Scottish Politics thread

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Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
While I share your sentiment about this, I think it's a bit of a stretch to paint Glasgow as the epicentre of diversity and tolerance. The fact is if either of those two blokes were Catholic / protestant in the wrong bit of town at certain times they would probably get stabbed.
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Put down No Mean City. The city has moved on. I didn't say it was the epicentre. I said I was proud of the stand. The fact is, not the way to start an assumption. Facts are true, assumptions aren't. Saying if you walked through certain areas due to your religion you get dragged, is utter tosh. How would people know what religion you were? Could people look at you and tell what religion you were? Of course not. Glasgow is a friendly place. If you act like a twat, someone will sort you out, but that's not the same. We have racial issues too, but they are carried out by racists, who are usually always right wing britnats. They are a minority, a statue protecting minority. The vast majority aren't. And today we said fuck off. The crackdown is to keep those leavers whose only interest in Brexit was getting rid of people. To be seen to be tough. Well, we are quite tough too.
 
Magicpole said:
Put down No Mean City. The city has moved on. I didn't say it was the epicentre. I said I was proud of the stand. The fact is, not the way to start an assumption. Facts are true, assumptions aren't. Saying if you walked through certain areas due to your religion you get dragged, is utter tosh. How would people know what religion you were? Could people look at you and tell what religion you were? Of course not. Glasgow is a friendly place. If you act like a twat, someone will sort you out, but that's not the same. We have racial issues too, but they are carried out by racists, who are usually always right wing britnats. They are a minority, a statue protecting minority. The vast majority aren't. And today we said fuck off. The crackdown is to keep those leavers whose only interest in Brexit was getting rid of people. To be seen to be tough. Well, we are quite tough too.
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By your own arguement then...are you not, along with maybe the majority of the people who were involved today, making assumptions about what was going on, who the "officers from London" were and the reasons why the two guys were detained?
Yes there are racists out there and some real horrible people, I know, having had my flat graffitied by C18, but I don't see how that has any bearing on what went on today.
 
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LGWIO said:
By your own arguement then...are you not, along with maybe the majority of the people who were involved today, making assumptions about what was going on, who the "officers from London" were and the reasons why the two guys were detained?
Yes there are racists out there and some real horrible people, I know, having had my flat graffitied by C18, but I don't see how that has any bearing on what went on today.
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Dawn raids, no time to say goodbye, just burst in and take people away? That's fucking Gestapo tactics. Thats what people are angry with. That and demonizing people who just want a better life. It's not the way to treat people, and it's racist to the core. Fuelled by 29 years of media demonizing. We d9nt buy the shit so eagerly swallowed about the Tories or Foriegn people living here. Its reflected in how we voted 're EU and rejecting Tories. Today was another example of how we are different in outlook. Some people will think that's a bad thing for us to be. Trouble with thst is we don't give a fuck. The rest if the UK do one thing, we do the other. And I'm.oroyd of us for that. We rejected the Tories at the Polls and their racist policies on the streets. 2.0 us.
 
Magicpole said:
Dawn raids, no time to say goodbye, just burst in and take people away? That's fucking Gestapo tactics. Thats what people are angry with. That and demonizing people who just want a better life. It's not the way to treat people, and it's racist to the core. Fuelled by 29 years of media demonizing. We d9nt buy the shit so eagerly swallowed about the Tories or Foriegn people living here. Its reflected in how we voted 're EU and rejecting Tories. Today was another example of how we are different in outlook. Some people will think that's a bad thing for us to be. Trouble with thst is we don't give a fuck. The rest if the UK do one thing, we do the other. And I'm.oroyd of us for that. We rejected the Tories at the Polls and their racist policies on the streets. 2.0 us.
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I fully get how proud you are of what happened today as an expression of opposition to a Tory government...but was it that? Obviously I dont know as I wasn't there...but equally are you not again making assumptions about what the circumstances were in this particular incident.
What time did this incident occur? How long had the guys involved been here? Or if they were subject to some sort of immigration action, how long had they known that for? Did they just burst in or did they knock?
They may seem silly questions but it tones down the incendiary narrative that comes out of the press on both sides but do nothing to further the sensible discussion on how you deal with immigration...or do you just have a complete open door policy?
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
While I share your sentiment about this, I think it's a bit of a stretch to paint Glasgow as the epicentre of diversity and tolerance. The fact is if either of those two blokes were Catholic / protestant in the wrong bit of town at certain times they would probably get stabbed.
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Fucking hell what era are you still stuck in.

edit, rereading the 'at certain times' bit, i overreacted. Still a bit of an outdated jibe, but at least not entirely detached
 
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LGWIO said:
By your own arguement then...are you not, along with maybe the majority of the people who were involved today, making assumptions about what was going on, who the "officers from London" were and the reasons why the two guys were detained?
Yes there are racists out there and some real horrible people, I know, having had my flat graffitied by C18, but I don't see how that has any bearing on what went on today.
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I don't really disagree with anything you say. Including your other posts on this event. We don't know the specifics and the detail. And some of it varies.

Doesn't mean it isn't reflective of the bigger picture though.

And that is kind of the real point. At a time when nationwide showpiece 'crackdowns' are happening, nearly 2 months early as well, before the brexit change legislation comes into force. Who for, by the way? If you read how many completely normal and by all accounts legally entitled people have been targeted, and at what cost, to me it can only be to posture and appease to the huge amount of xenophobic voters (by that I'm talking about the ones that sent out their messages openly, and not a general broadbrush btw) the government wants to keep on board. Show them that they are doing brexit 'right' and giving them what they really voted for. And that is very much happening.

So to then see a community look past that, and see people purely as people and not as defined in a category, IS different to the current trend. Doesn't really matter where it is either. It just so happens to be in a place where the message openly spread, ever since the brexit vote really, has been of welcoming and non-reactionary hatred.

And again, not generalizing as all good all bad, i'm well aware all sorts exists everywhere. However this example does buck the trend, and that really is the point imo.
 
Gabriel said:
Suspect I’ll be asking that same question tomorrow when watching events from Glasgow’s George Square…
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Do you agree with the claim I was responding to?

btw, on rereading, edited post
 
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LGWIO said:
I very much agree that it is all about where you get your media, whether you move from source to source , get different views and then make up your own mind.
After all that is what we should all do.
But it is interesting how things and different views and information gets posted and then gets passed on.
In your first post you refer to those detained as being a family and also asylum seekers and yet in your response you then agree with one news report that says that it was 2 males. In one report I read, it referred to those involved as asylum seekers, in another it referred to immigration offences.
Immigration, of course is a hugely emotive issue, always polarises opinions simply by the fact that it deals directly with peoples lives. Often those who need the greatest amount of help and support. In which case I think it needs to be reported and researched as thoroughly as possible.
As for the policy...and I am very very far from a Tory supporter, but appreciate that there does need to be some sort of policy. In this case I think the policies in place have been put in place by both Labour & Tories...As I said previously, it will be very interesting to see what the SNP put in place when they get independence.
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Not much I wouldn’t have thought other than a immigrant support package to increase the number we get.
 
LGWIO said:
By your own arguement then...are you not, along with maybe the majority of the people who were involved today, making assumptions about what was going on, who the "officers from London" were and the reasons why the two guys were detained?
Yes there are racists out there and some real horrible people, I know, having had my flat graffitied by C18, but I don't see how that has any bearing on what went on today.
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No, I am saying the Gestapo like raids are against what we believe to be fair and just. That's it. Thst isn't an assumption, that's s fact. We hate the Tories anti immigration pandering to the Right. That's not an assumption, that's s fact, as we totally rejected the Tories and everything they stand for last week and since 1955. An assumption: a thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof.

We have proof.
 
LGWIO said:
I very much agree that it is all about where you get your media, whether you move from source to source , get different views and then make up your own mind.
After all that is what we should all do.
But it is interesting how things and different views and information gets posted and then gets passed on.
In your first post you refer to those detained as being a family and also asylum seekers and yet in your response you then agree with one news report that says that it was 2 males. In one report I read, it referred to those involved as asylum seekers, in another it referred to immigration offences.
Immigration, of course is a hugely emotive issue, always polarises opinions simply by the fact that it deals directly with peoples lives. Often those who need the greatest amount of help and support. In which case I think it needs to be reported and researched as thoroughly as possible.
As for the policy...and I am very very far from a Tory supporter, but appreciate that there does need to be some sort of policy. In this case I think the policies in place have been put in place by both Labour & Tories...As I said previously, it will be very interesting to see what the SNP put in place when they get independence.
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All I know is that whatever is put in place will be more humane and not dawn said shit. Our economy needs immigration so does yours, NHS, Farming, Hospitality, and so on. The difference us, we do t have a rabid group of people who want rid of people because they aren't Scots. Our view is they soon will be and are welcomed by the vast majority. We have all watched the Trumps, The Tories convince idiots the other is the problem. We are smart enough and not stupid enough not to realise who the real problem is. Windrush, Brexit, an increase in racial attacks and abuse it caused. We want no part of that and the fact that feeling is not shared down south is why we are where we are.
 
LGWIO said:
I fully get how proud you are of what happened today as an expression of opposition to a Tory government...but was it that? Obviously I dont know as I wasn't there...but equally are you not again making assumptions about what the circumstances were in this particular incident.
What time did this incident occur? How long had the guys involved been here? Or if they were subject to some sort of immigration action, how long had they known that for? Did they just burst in or did they knock?
They may seem silly questions but it tones down the incendiary narrative that comes out of the press on both sides but do nothing to further the sensible discussion on how you deal with immigration...or do you just have a complete open door policy?
Click to expand...
 
LGWIO said:
I fully get how proud you are of what happened today as an expression of opposition to a Tory government...but was it that? Obviously I dont know as I wasn't there...but equally are you not again making assumptions about what the circumstances were in this particular incident.
What time did this incident occur? How long had the guys involved been here? Or if they were subject to some sort of immigration action, how long had they known that for? Did they just burst in or did they knock?
They may seem silly questions but it tones down the incendiary narrative that comes out of the press on both sides but do nothing to further the sensible discussion on how you deal with immigration...or do you just have a complete open door policy?
Click to expand...

Immigration needs to be managed. It needs to meet the needs of the country. It needs to be fair and just. It needs to remove the feeling that these people are stealing people a jobs. It isn't as fruit producers, Hospitality and our NHS shows. It should never be used as a weapon to appease thick racist gammons. We need it. People want to come here. If we get Indy I am will to bet our largest group will come from England. People who want a better life away from a Tory hell. I may be wrong, but I really believe that. And they will be welcomed, just as the 500,000 already happy here are. You fuckers make up 10% of our population, let's make that 15%. It's not about nationality, it's about values. People know what we are about and share them.
 
The 'hostile env
Magicpole said:
All I know is that whatever is put in place will be more humane and not dawn said shit. Our economy needs immigration so does yours, NHS, Farming, Hospitality, and so on. The difference us, we do t have a rabid group of people who want rid of people because they aren't Scots. Our view is they soon will be and are welcomed by the vast majority. We have all watched the Trumps, The Tories convince idiots the other is the problem. We are smart enough and not stupid enough not to realise who the real problem is. Windrush, Brexit, an increase in racial attacks and abuse it caused. We want no part of that and the fact that feeling is not shared down south is why we are where we are.
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a kinder more tolerant society in the main and a recognition that most of us were immigrants at some point. Our politics have irrevocably departed from that which gains such support in England. Its kind of obvious we should not be governed by it.
 
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