The state of the gardens - another police incident

[urban genie]

Nearly half a million non fatal stabbings? There’s either a typo in here or you have been using the Mail as your source. Does that figure deal specifically with stabbings or is it referring to all crimes involving a knife and not just actual stabbings?

I googled stabbings in London 2019 and came up with the figure 100. I didn’t post the link (or the link for the number stabbings in Manchester) and after a brief search cannot find them. It may be that both figures related to fatal stabbings, it may be that neither did, it may be that one did and the other did not. Obviously if you are going to dissect the figures it helps to know if you are making like for like comparisons.

The point I was making is that because London is much bigger it is obvious that there will be more stabbings, but per head of population the risk is not necessarily significantly greater in London than anywhere else. More significantly, in London it is extremely rare for knife crime to feature in large central areas comparable to Piccadilly Gardens. None of this is to say that knife crime is not a real problem, it is and it’s getting worse, but it is not helpful to to swallow hysterical reporting from news outlets that are more interested in gathering clicks than telling the truth.

A bit like when Donald Trump said Birmingham was a no go area for non Muslims. If you live there, you understand the extent to which there is something in this and the extent to which it’s horseshit.

I typed 44000 secind time so obviously a typo.

 

[Chris in London]

I typed 44000 secind time so obviously a typo.

My bad, hadn’t read your second post when I posted. Also you make clear that figure is all knife crime not just stabbings

 

[Chris in London]

How many are there then? Quoting the number of fatal stabbings doesn't give an accurate representation of the likelihood of being stabbed.

Google is your friend

 

[Chris in London]

People are bigger cunts today than they were yesterday, and will probably even bigger cunts tomorrow. That’s the “social problem.” The rest is an excuse for carrying a knife and using it, same as it is for guns here....and that’s getting worse there, too!

Face it, Manchester is a bit of a cesspit once you get away from the few vibrant places worth a visit for a drink or a meal.

It really isn’t.

Manchester is like every other city in Britain largely full of essentially boring law abiding suburbs where nothing much happens. Some of them are a bit run down, others a bit twee, others rather attractive. There are a number of very deprived areas where crime, including knife crime is more prevalent. They are overwhelmingly the exception rather than the rule.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

It really isn’t.

Manchester is like every other city in Britain largely full of essentially boring law abiding suburbs where nothing much happens. Some of them are a bit run down, others a bit twee, others rather attractive. There are a number of very deprived areas where crime, including knife crime is more prevalent. They are overwhelmingly the exception rather than the rule.

English cities have, in the whole, deteriorated in the years since I left. I visit frequently and travel extensively. Urban areas are trying to update and gentrify, but it all smacks of slap dash, quick buck, scattershot development.

England is, and always will be, about the countryside. Thankfully, even in the worst cities, you are never more than a quick drive from escaping to the country. Manchester is surrounded by some of the most beautiful countryside in the world. Traveling from out there into the inner city, which I did almost daily when I lived there, provides a stark contrast...especially stark when traveling in from the Peak District.

Wouldn’t move back to Manchester if you paid me. I’d love to live out by the likes of Saddleworth or Hale (in close proximity to the countryside), but all the rules and regs of what you can and cannot do are absolutely ridiculous. Permission impossible is real. Love the Lake District, but even up there there are local residency restrictions to even getting a place. I guess you have to have suffered first to be able to buy a little place in the country!

Don’t get me wrong...Chicago is a great city to visit, but there are some totally shit places to live in and around Chicago, too. That’s why I live in an established leafy green suburb on a 24 acre park with pools and sports fields for a front yard,a dm would like to live even further out in the country once the kids are gone and we have no need for a 4BR 3BA home.

Are there some fun and interesting places in Manchester? Of course! But, on the whole, even with all the money being thrown at it for “development,” it is going to look like a post-70s redux in 10-20 years, as the quality of what is being built is often spit and Kleenex quality, unless it is ultra Lux and out of reach of most. And, even then, the spit and Kleenex crap is on your doorstep!

Just one man’s opinion, of course. But having travelled extensively, and having lived in and around Manc for decades and visited for 30 yrs since, I feel fairly strongly about the city centre’s overall decay.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I remember a little shopping arcade in ancoats - think it had a Toys R Us or some such, and it was surrounded by waste ground. On the left as you were coming out of town. Even in my teens I remember thinking ‘who the fuck wants to shop there?’

Then after I moved south I didn’t go back through that part of town until I started going to Eastlands. The transformation is incredible.

Remember that retail park well. Remember it going up, late 80’s I reckon. My gran and grandad lived about a mile behind it, just off Bradford Road.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Manchester in time will become like London, stabbings daily and not a place for people to go at any time. This isn't the fault of the homeless or the poor but the planning of it and the no policing of it. Society has changed and if you take a long hard look at Manchester it now caters heavily for teenagers and youths.
Gone are the days when your Nana used to go to Lewis's for a pork pie and some cold meats. Just as an aside I was catching a bus outside Chorlton street bus station in the late morning, at the bus stop there were 2 spice zombies and across the road there was a woman with 3 kids in the back of her car handing out Amazon parcels to taxi drivers (maybe 4 customers she had), while this was going on you had a parking attendant walking round looking for victims, like parking a car in the wrong spot was the only actionable crime that was happening.

What do you believe the woman was doing?

 

[bugsyblue]

English cities have, in the whole, deteriorated in the years since I left. I visit frequently and travel extensively. Urban areas are trying to update and gentrify, but it all smacks of slap dash, quick buck, scattershot development.

England is, and always will be, about the countryside. Thankfully, even in the worst cities, you are never more than a quick drive from escaping to the country. Manchester is surrounded by some of the most beautiful countryside in the world. Traveling from out there into the inner city, which I did almost daily when I lived there, provides a stark contrast...especially stark when traveling in from the Peak District.

Wouldn’t move back to Manchester if you paid me. I’d love to live out by the likes of Saddleworth or Hale (in close proximity to the countryside), but all the rules and regs of what you can and cannot do are absolutely ridiculous. Permission impossible is real. Love the Lake District, but even up there there are local residency restrictions to even getting a place. I guess you have to have suffered first to be able to buy a little place in the country!

Don’t get me wrong...Chicago is a great city to visit, but there are some totally shit places to live in and around Chicago, too. That’s why I live in an established leafy green suburb on a 24 acre park with pools and sports fields for a front yard,a dm would like to live even further out in the country once the kids are gone and we have no need for a 4BR 3BA home.

Are there some fun and interesting places in Manchester? Of course! But, on the whole, even with all the money being thrown at it for “development,” it is going to look like a post-70s redux in 10-20 years, as the quality of what is being built is often spit and Kleenex quality, unless it is ultra Lux and out of reach of most. And, even then, the spit and Kleenex crap is on your doorstep!

Just one man’s opinion, of course. But having travelled extensively, and having lived in and around Manc for decades and visited for 30 yrs since, I feel fairly strongly about the city centre’s overall decay.

You think Manchester is worse now than it was in the 80s? Mate there was 3 shootings per day at the height of the trouble in Moss Side in the late 80s/early 90s. When I was a kid every time you went out with your friends in the evening you’d be prepared that someone might tax you.

Manchester still has it problems, homelessness being the obvious one, but I would still argue that the city as a whole is safer and has improved. I mean look at the massive regeneration it’s had in the last decade alone!

 

[MikeF]

To continue to call that area 'Gardens' has to be the biggest misnomer of all time. My Grandad who was a gardener for the city council would be spinning in his grave.

Having watched the Monty Don programme on BBC2 on friday night, he showed a fantastic civic garden smack bang in the middle of Chicago so don't tell me it still can't be done as I'm sure Chicago must have it's societal problems too which I guess is the real thrust of this thread. I'm sure @ChicagoBlue can comment on how this area really works though.

Anyhow,Those in charge at the council should be ashamed of themselves for ever signing off on that wall and whoever 'designed' the bloody thing needs a word with themselves.

 

[balotellishaircut]

You think Manchester is worse now than it was in the 80s? Mate there was 3 shootings per day at the height of the trouble in Moss Side in the late 80s/early 90s. When I was a kid every time you went out with your friends in the evening you’d be prepared that someone might tax you.

Manchester still has it problems, homelessness being the obvious one, but I would still argue that the city as a whole is safer and has improved. I mean look at the massive regeneration it’s had in the last decade alone!

Good post, you couldn't go out at night in the 80s, it's a million percent better now. And that poster who thinks it will be like London with stabbings everyday, I don't think it will tbh, but we all have our opinions.