The views of Jesus are now seen as woke and too left/liberal

Religion is fine when it is a sincere and private code of ethics.

Where it goes wrong is when it captures a state and starts telling the population that anyone who opposes it is ungodly/evil. At that point, religion is merely being abused as the tool of the ruling class. If you have a nation of believers and you tell them that their religion is threatened by 'X'. then that is a very powerful and emotional bond that can be persuaded to do evil quite easily.

This seems to work in both Iran and the USA, to name two sides of a coin. There are a shit ton of historical precedents, whether it's Cromwell and the Puritans, or whether it's Louis XIV cracking down hard on people who dared to be Protestants. Whether it's the Spanish Inquisition, or the extreme Protestants of Geneva or, indeed, Scotland.
 
BrianW said:
Religion is fine when it is a sincere and private code of ethics.

Where it goes wrong is when it captures a state and starts telling the population that anyone who opposes it is ungodly/evil. At that point, religion is merely being abused as the tool of the ruling class. If you have a nation of believers and you tell them that their religion is threatened by 'X'. then that is a very powerful and emotional bond that can be persuaded to do evil quite easily.

This seems to work in both Iran and the USA, to name two sides of a coin. There are a shit ton of historical precedents, whether it's Cromwell and the Puritans, or whether it's Louis XIV cracking down hard on people who dared to be Protestants. Whether it's the Spanish Inquisition, or the extreme Protestants of Geneva or, indeed, Scotland.
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I tend to agree with these points. Christianity and the teachings of Christ parted company forever when Constantine made it the State Religion of the Roman Empire in the 4th Century. Once political, administrative and military power structures become entwined with a religion, the religion just becomes another arm of the State. Where I’d slightly disagree is that it’s not religion that captures a state (in terms of the history of the Western World, not modern Islamic States for example) but rather the other way round. Then religion is inevitably used to support the status quo and reinforce existing power structures right the way through to the divine right of kings and all that bollocks.
 
mexico1970 said:
Liberalism doesn't mean the same as it did 40 years ago, they also get confused with lefties which must annoy the fuck out of the lefties.
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I am of the Left and it does annoy the fuck out of me that the right consider Lefties as Liberal. The Liberal left are as bad as Tories in my eyes, because they are Capitalists.

As far as woke goes, being aware of injustice as described by my friend Kathy Burke is perfect. She tweeted "I love being 'woke'. It's much nicer than being an ignorant fucking twat." and as somebody who knows Kathy and the Irish working class background she came from I totally get where she is coming from. She was attacked after that tweet by the Daily Express for using the term "babes" as they claimed it was derogatory. I have known her for 40 years and have never seen anyone offended by her use of language which can to be fair get rather flowery after a few beers.

I see the use of "woke" as a pejorative as an attack by the right on working class values, they hate the thought the working class may come together and enact change that damages the owners of capitals hegemony on political thought and speech.

Well fuck you, you right wing cunts, I am a Socialist and we fight injustice and fight for the working class and if that makes me "woke" then fucking good as Kathy said, "its better than being an ignorant twat"
 
Rascal said:
I am of the Left and it does annoy the fuck out of me that the right consider Lefties as Liberal. The Liberal left are as bad as Tories in my eyes, because they are Capitalists.

As far as woke goes, being aware of injustice as described by my friend Kathy Burke is perfect. She tweeted "I love being 'woke'. It's much nicer than being an ignorant fucking twat." and as somebody who knows Kathy and the Irish working class background she came from I totally get where she is coming from. She was attacked after that tweet by the Daily Express for using the term "babes" as they claimed it was derogatory. I have known her for 40 years and have never seen anyone offended by her use of language which can to be fair get rather flowery after a few beers.

I see the use of "woke" as a pejorative as an attack by the right on working class values, they hate the thought the working class may come together and enact change that damages the owners of capitals hegemony on political thought and speech.

Well fuck you, you right wing cunts, I am a Socialist and we fight injustice and fight for the working class and if that makes me "woke" then fucking good as Kathy said, "its better than being an ignorant twat"
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Yes, but what kind of socialist are you?

Libertarian, authoritarian? And then, are you sure you're not also liberal? I mean, if you're not liberal, then are your socially conservative?
 
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