This transfer window/Marwood

[Rolee]

Re: Winter defends Marwood

"I will first address the Nasri situation. This is where it is important to understand football, rather than just seeing things in term of a typical business.

Of course there are going to be problems with negotiations, but getting Nasri early could have been vital to your season. Mancini is not a fool either. He too understands the complications, but you have to assess how important a player is to your league season and consequently your finances. The wrangling with Arsenal/agent over the extra million here or there was not as important as getting Nasri early. The current Chelsea run their transfer dealings in a far better way. Saving a couple of million short term on Pepe, probably ended up costing Roman a over a hundred million.

Now on to Milner. Not everyone has the same vision at a football club. Read what other manages and even Mancini has said about transfers. I suspect Mancini had a list of players at the top lets call them A, B, C. Mancini goes to the board and says he wants one of them. The board then tries to get them. However, the board have their own ideas on what value is. So may decide player Z for 25 million is better than any of A, B or C for 32 million. They come back to Mancini and say player A, B and C cost more than we think is value. So we have played Z for a certain amount, are you prepared to take him? Now Mancini really has his hands tied, because he needs a midfielder or else he will be forced to play a kid. So he has no choice, but to accept player Z. Situations like this nearly always go badly and you can see them from a mile off.

Player Z despite being a huge money signing does not walk into the team or even get introduced gradually. Player Z has a style of football different from the other signings. Played Z often shafted into a different position to fit the team. A very cheap desperate replacement is made by the manager for player Z."

That is the greatest pile of steaming horse shite I've ever come across on a football forum.

 

[el blue]

Re: Winter defends Marwood

Based on what? Again, you're guessing to try and prove your point. I think our owner is a bit smarter than that.

Well presumably its based on the fact that we haven't done any hard spending this summer. Seems a reasonable assumption to me.

Unless our lack of spending so far (transfer window hasnt closed yet) can be put down to Marwod advising Khaldoon and co that we shouldn't spend I don't think it is a fair assumption to make.

I hear what you are saying and perhaps its not a fair assumption to make but I doubt we will ever get to know that kind of detailed information on the internals of the club, so unless people make assumptions and speculations the debate on here is going to get a bit stifled.

 

[Rolee]

Re: Winter defends Marwood

Well presumably its based on the fact that we haven't done any hard spending this summer. Seems a reasonable assumption to me.

Unless our lack of spending so far (transfer window hasnt closed yet) can be put down to Marwod advising Khaldoon and co that we shouldn't spend I don't think it is a fair assumption to make.

Your owners have pumped into the club hundreds and hundreds of millions. The money has not run dry and 60 odd million more this season before slowing down is not going to dent their wallets. They clearly love the club and would spend this amount if someone told them it was still a pivotal stage in the development of the club. The fact that you haven't whilst a) your manager wants you to spend b) your squad needs investment; suggest to me someone body has advised a cooling off period.

Marwood is probably making the same mistake that I see a lot of City fans are making. The belief that now you are champions everything is fine. When in truth you can slightly rest your laurels when the squad is complete. Even then things need freshening up, but nothing drastic. Worse still your rivals have really come back at you strongly and invested heavily, improving their squads.

It seems to me this is Deja Vu of the Chelsea situation after they won their 2nd title.[/quote]

The suggestion you appear to making here is that Sheikh Mansour sees Marwood as some kind of football oracle and is hanging of his every word.

Get a grip fella.

 

[moomba]

Re: Winter defends Marwood

Khaldoon is the head of a vast empire. He is a busy man and needs to rely on the information provided from his employees. Even Roman had to learn and he is another excellent businessman. No one really know the whole story, but this is the impression I get.

He also spends an inordinate amount of time working on club business, you only have to listen to him speak to know that he is no absentee chairman reliant on staff to make his decisions for him. He reportedly speaks to Mancini every day, and even visits this website every now and then (Hi Khaldoon). He has also spoken for over a year about how our spending strategy would change from the first few years.

I don't get this attitude? You won the league with 2 minutes to go. You went out of the CL early. You went out of the FA cup early. Just, because other things you did went well does not mean you don't need to improve. It would be like a Chelsea fan saying well we won the CL and the FA cup last year, it was our greatest ever season so no reason to change the team or improve things.

For a start, Samir Nasri does not constitute consistently signing people late in the window. Secondly, he scored 5 goals and made 9 assists in a title winning year. That makes it a good signing to me. Unless you're going to put our CL and Foy Cup failures down to the fact that Nasri didn't sign for us a week or two earlier, I'd say your point doesn't have a lot of merit.

Also, you need to recognise that football people can't just walk into a club and take people away whenever they want.

Yes I would imagine that they would trust the opinion of a trusted employee on players. Why would they not? It seems fairly valid deductions. Hughes built a team and formation where there was no place for Robinho. A bit odd if he wanted to spend 32 million on him. Hughes wanted a very fast, strong team with good crossers, good in the air. Just take a look at his signigns: SWP, Adebayor, Cruz, Bellamy, Bridge, Lescott, Toure, Barry, Jo and De Jong. Forgetting about quality do those players look like they fit the style of football Robinho likes to play?

Robinho has been publicly recognised as a mistake, and something that wouldn't happen again. But that was the owners decision to sign Robinho, Marwood wasn't even at the club then.

Perhaps, hard to know who exactly was at fault, but it was not very good

So we'll blame Marwood for it anyway.

Your owners are not football men and have several businesses to run. If things appear to be going fine they will trust the people they have in charge. It appears to me a power struggle is going on and it would be best for the club if Mancini won it.

I think you underestimate the people in charge of this club.

Glad that you think so, but barring the strikers I might take the Liverpool second string. This is Liverpool we are comparing your second string to as well. Not exactly Barcelona, Madrid, Bayern, United or Chelsea.

We were the 10th placed in the league a few years back. No-one expects us to come in and become a world superpower in a year. Personally I think we're well ahead of schedule (and much better than Uniteds second string as well).

Yes, because it is better than going into the season with nothing. Benitez had a great quote about his time at Valencia. He said he asked for a Sofa and they bought him a lamp. Now this was in regards to Sisoko a played he grew to like and even brought to Liverpool. Even guys like Mourinho have had to shut up and take it when their owners have bought guys like Shevchenko or Ancelotti with Luiz.

[/quote][/quote]

We're not Valencia, or Chelsea.

 

[CityCTID]

Re: Winter defends Marwood

"I will first address the Nasri situation. This is where it is important to understand football, rather than just seeing things in term of a typical business.

Of course there are going to be problems with negotiations, but getting Nasri early could have been vital to your season. Mancini is not a fool either. He too understands the complications, but you have to assess how important a player is to your league season and consequently your finances. The wrangling with Arsenal/agent over the extra million here or there was not as important as getting Nasri early. The current Chelsea run their transfer dealings in a far better way. Saving a couple of million short term on Pepe, probably ended up costing Roman a over a hundred million.

Now on to Milner. Not everyone has the same vision at a football club. Read what other manages and even Mancini has said about transfers. I suspect Mancini had a list of players at the top lets call them A, B, C. Mancini goes to the board and says he wants one of them. The board then tries to get them. However, the board have their own ideas on what value is. So may decide player Z for 25 million is better than any of A, B or C for 32 million. They come back to Mancini and say player A, B and C cost more than we think is value. So we have played Z for a certain amount, are you prepared to take him? Now Mancini really has his hands tied, because he needs a midfielder or else he will be forced to play a kid. So he has no choice, but to accept player Z. Situations like this nearly always go badly and you can see them from a mile off.

Player Z despite being a huge money signing does not walk into the team or even get introduced gradually. Player Z has a style of football different from the other signings. Played Z often shafted into a different position to fit the team. A very cheap desperate replacement is made by the manager for player Z."

That is the greatest pile of steaming horse shite I've ever come across on a football forum.

says the fool

 

[Rolee]

Re: Winter defends Marwood

"I will first address the Nasri situation. This is where it is important to understand football, rather than just seeing things in term of a typical business.

Of course there are going to be problems with negotiations, but getting Nasri early could have been vital to your season. Mancini is not a fool either. He too understands the complications, but you have to assess how important a player is to your league season and consequently your finances. The wrangling with Arsenal/agent over the extra million here or there was not as important as getting Nasri early. The current Chelsea run their transfer dealings in a far better way. Saving a couple of million short term on Pepe, probably ended up costing Roman a over a hundred million.

Now on to Milner. Not everyone has the same vision at a football club. Read what other manages and even Mancini has said about transfers. I suspect Mancini had a list of players at the top lets call them A, B, C. Mancini goes to the board and says he wants one of them. The board then tries to get them. However, the board have their own ideas on what value is. So may decide player Z for 25 million is better than any of A, B or C for 32 million. They come back to Mancini and say player A, B and C cost more than we think is value. So we have played Z for a certain amount, are you prepared to take him? Now Mancini really has his hands tied, because he needs a midfielder or else he will be forced to play a kid. So he has no choice, but to accept player Z. Situations like this nearly always go badly and you can see them from a mile off.

Player Z despite being a huge money signing does not walk into the team or even get introduced gradually. Player Z has a style of football different from the other signings. Played Z often shafted into a different position to fit the team. A very cheap desperate replacement is made by the manager for player Z."

That is the greatest pile of steaming horse shite I've ever come across on a football forum.

says the fool

Eh?

 

[moomba]

Re: Winter defends Marwood

Your owners have pumped into the club hundreds and hundreds of millions. The money has not run dry and 60 odd million more this season before slowing down is not going to dent their wallets. They clearly love the club and would spend this amount if someone told them it was still a pivotal stage in the development of the club. The fact that you haven't whilst a) your manager wants you to spend b) your squad needs investment; suggest to me someone body has advised a cooling off period.

No, it suggests that the strategy of the club was to spend big to get as to a stage where we could compete at the top, and then go about building a more sustainable setup. This was publicly stated from before Marwood even joined the club.

Marwood is probably making the same mistake that I see a lot of City fans are making. The belief that now you are champions everything is fine. When in truth you can slightly rest your laurels when the squad is complete. Even then things need freshening up, but nothing drastic. Worse still your rivals have really come back at you strongly and invested heavily, improving their squads.

You don't know what Marwoods thoughts are, you are guessing.

It seems to me this is Deja Vu of the Chelsea situation after they won their 2nd title.

It seems to me that you are comparing apples to oranges.

 

[johnmc]

Re: Winter defends Marwood

This scouser is trying to lecture us based on guesswork - i'm out

 

[supercrystal7]

Re: Winter defends Marwood

He also spends an inordinate amount of time working on club business, you only have to listen to him speak to know that he is no absentee chairman reliant on staff to make his decisions for him. He reportedly speaks to Mancini every day, and even visits this website every now and then (Hi Khaldoon). He has also spoken for over a year about how our spending strategy would change from the first few years.

There are only so many hours in a day. The man is not Batman, there is only so much he can do. Of course your spending strategy has to stop at some point, but only when you have a top class complete squad.

For a start, Samir Nasri does not constitute consistently signing people late in the window. Secondly, he scored 5 goals and made 9 assists in a title winning year. That makes it a good signing to me. Unless you're going to put our CL and Foy Cup failures down to the fact that Nasri didn't sign for us a week or two earlier, I'd say your point doesn't have a lot of merit. Also, you need to recognise that football people can't just walk into a club and take people away whenever they want.

Nasri, Milner, Robinho and now this transfer window. Signing a player late is not always a bad thing. This is where understanding football is important. If you are signing a promising youngster you are looking to bleed into the squad then it does not matter too much. When you are signing a player to go straight into your first team then it matters a lot more.

The FA Cup was unfortunate, but having a fully embedded Nasri in the CL would have helped things.

Paying a couple of million over the odds for Nasri was worth the compromise in getting him early. Last year you were remarkably lucky with injuries. I have already linked an article where your fitness coach implies Mancini was forced to play Silva and Toure, though they were no as fit as he would have liked. A fully fit and bedded Nasri takes a bit of the burden from Silva leaving him fresher at the end.

I think you underestimate the people in charge of this club.

Maybe I am, but the signs don't look promising.

We were the 10th placed in the league a few years back. No-one expects us to come in and become a world superpower in a year. Personally I think we're well ahead of schedule (and much better than Uniteds second string as well).

When you were 10th you were woefully underachieving. Winning the league is ahead of schedule, but not capitalising now can set you back.

I am not sure if you are serious that your 2nd string is better than Uniteds. Lindergaard, Evans, Smalling, Jones, Cleverly, Fletcher, Valencia, Young, Welbeck, Hernandez.

Here is a question. If your first team is much better than United, your second string much better than United, why did you only finish above them on goal difference? Something must have gone wrong then? So what was it?

We're not Valencia, or Chelsea.

No, but you have done some of the same things, both good and bad.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Winter defends Marwood

With good reason.

Just read the thread and surprised no one picked up on this? Can you elaborate a bit more bud?

He was briefed by City that Hughes was safe a week before his sack. The rest of fleet street were saying he was gone (remember tales of managers being sounded out) and Winter ran a big piece on the fact he was staying and defending our board. We then sacked him A few days later and very much made Winter look a tit so he gave us both barrels in the press conference, as I would have done if I was a journalist that had just been made to look a twat.

Cheers mate.