Three years of bad transfer dealings

[chris85mcfc]

We had a very similar thread to this during the week, although the replies to the OP's points in that thread were laughed at

Good to see that a few of those posters are taking this thread a bit more seriously

 

[Ray78]

Here's the thing. If you think we should've signed Sanchez/Hazard/Fabregas (delete as appropriate) and believe that we didn't through some sort of incompetence on our part then you should probably stop commenting on such matters because you clearly don't understand them.

The year we won the title for the first time Khaldoon made it clear in his end of season review, that moving forward things would be different with respect to our approach to the transfer market. The accelerated spending was over and moreover, with FFP just over the horizon, the time had come to start cutting back since the core of a winning team was quite clearly there. What we needed to do was bring the wage bill more in line with our turn over, we needed to reshape and rebalance the squad as there were far too many players being paid way more than they were worth, which had a dual effect. Firstly it meant that for the wages we were paying we weren't getting value for money, and more importantly, shifting those heavy earners off the books was problematic because nobody wanted to take on the stupid contracts we'd given them.

What the club have done since that summer is very clear and very simple. They've taken the core of that first title winning side and extracted maximum value out of it (two titles in three years, potentially three in four), whilst simultaneously working on reducing the wage bill, getting us through the first FFP monitoring period, whilst keeping us competitive on the pitch. It isn't as eye catching as when we were signing Kun, Toure, etc. But it's a process we needed to go through because as we've seen, even with this three year drive towards sustainability we still failed FFP and were hit with sanctions. It doesn't bare thinking about how bad those sanctions would've been had we stuck to two fingers up at UEFA in the first place and carried on spending.

So people need to understand that Fernandinho and Sanchez, or Mangala and Sanchez, simply didn't cost the same amount of money. That's the kind of naive and simplistic logic which infuriates. Clubs don't make decisions on players based solely on their transfer fee, it's based on their wages plus transfer fee. Sanchez is purported to earn around 200k a week at Arsenal, which would be double what Mangala earns. Similarly Fabregas at Chelsea. So again you can say "they cost the same as Mangala" but that's just naive bollocks.

Next problem with this whole "we should've signed XYZ". When you're going after top players you have to first make sure you've got room in the squad for them. You can't just buy players on top of players. It's something which again goes back to the "we should've signed Hazard/Van Persie" narrative. The owners, Sheikh Mansour, Khaldoon, made it abundantly clear to Mancini and co that there was NO way that a player like that was coming in unless room was made for them in the first team by selling another top earner. This wasn't some naive decision or some penny pinching exercise for the sake of it without any view on the football side of things. It was equally a footballing decision based on the fact that there were 4 supposedly world class forwards already at the club. Buying another one would've been a joke without moving one on first. This applies equally to the players we supposedly missed out on this summer. Had we gone after Fabregas without selling Toure he wouldn't have come anyway because - well at Chelsea he had a manager saying "you start every week, you're the main playmaker". Same with Sanzhez. He is undisputed number 1 at Arsenal. At City he'd have been in the same situation as Barca, part of a squad, playing some weeks to playing others.

So lets look specifically at the narrative that the players we've bought in the last three years have been shit. Or since the blame is squarely apportioned to Txiki, lets look at the players which Txiki has bought. It's both deluded, and revisionist rag nonsense to suggest that we bought badly in the summer of 2013. Demichelis, Negredo, Navas, and Fernandinho all played INTEGRAL parts in our title and league cup win. You can't have bad transfer policy by anyone's definition if you end the season with a lower wage bill than you ended the previous season, yet finish higher in the league and win more trophies. Not by anyone'e standards is that bad business. Maybe it wasn't long term business, but as I keep saying, we were working towards a very specific financial plan and for a specific time period.

I realise it's a forum but it's quite depressing how out of touch some posters are with the reality of what is going on at our football club and why things are the way they are when it comes to buying/selling players. Never mind Txiki or Ferran, we should be giving Mansour and Khaldoon a little more respect than acting out like little kids whenever we don't win a football match.

This is the point I am trying to make and this the reasoning why I am defending City's transfer policy. Cheers for trying to add more depth MA.

 

[Ray78]

We should have paid Hazard/ Iscos parents what they wanted and got one of them here.

With Uefa breathing down our necks? With Chelsea winning the Champions League and Real Madrid deciding he was one of the must have players? Manchester isn't the be all or end all to some of the foreign stars.

He was quite happy to come and watch the Kompany 1.0 derby so there must have been some interest. That summer we spent 52m, he cost Chelsea just over 30 - FFP can't be blamed for that.

He was still hesitant hence the drama of where he would likely to end up in that summer.

 

[mancity1]

Not a 'wum' in the slightest!

What exactly do you disagree with?
I may have been harsh on Dzecko but Bony has been bought now so he's sellable

It may of escaped your attention that our manager wants four strikers at the club and the Beast has been sold with a pre sale loan agreement in place.
Dzeko has been out injured most of the season and last season when the Beast wasn't firing and Aguero was out injured he stepped up and helped us win the League like he has done before. So with that in mind you sir are a WUM.

It hasn't escaped my attention at all but what's wrong with selling Dzecko and buying someone younger? Like I said, I may have been harsh on Dzecko but that's the only part of the most you have picked up on

A 'wum' as far as I know, is someone who diliberately posts to wind people up - that's isn't the case here and you seem to be struggling to back up your claim - your only response was to pick up on one aspect which I already conceded may have been harsh

Its not that harsh Dzeko isn't part of the future anymore.

He has done what he can and Bony will be given his spot in the main and lets hope he adds some much needed impetus in a squad that has been stuttering all season.

Massive changes over the summer in a biggest overhaul for some years is what is needed and must occur and Dzeko is one of those we need to let go.

He isn't effective from the start if he plays alongside Aguerro and has lost his impact from the bench.

It won't be possible but if it were we would only have Hart , Kompany, Mangala , Fernando, Fernandinho, Nasri, Sliva, Aguerro, Clichy, Zaba and Bony staying as we have to cash in on Yaya.

The above are nowhere near good enough to go deep into Chumps League but add 6 or 7 quality players to that list that are youngish and have the hunger and abilty to succeed and we could give it a better fist and get back to the brutal football of the 2011-2012 season domestically.

I wouldn't be too concerned if Kompany left either

 

[Blue Hefner]

I wouldn't entertain selling Kompany, or Aguero, Yaya and Zabeleta for that matter.

We have to keep a spine and as well as their ability they have the experience of doing the business when it matters.

 

[Scaring Europe to Death]

I wouldn't entertain selling Kompany, or Aguero, Yaya and Zabeleta for that matter.

We have to keep a spine and as well as their ability they have the experience of doing the business when it matters.

I'm all for keeping a spine, just as long as they are always fit, and more importantly, playing well.

Kompany is forever breaking down, and as alluded on other threads, his popularity and reputation have saved him from harsher criticism after some pretty dreadful performances

Zabaleta is also having a bad run of form which has stretched to longer than many of his fan club would concede.

Yaya has been our most influential player since the takeover, but he's not getting any younger.

Aguero has struggled with his fitness for almost three seasons.

That's why Pellegrini should have rotated less because thanks to all the recurring injuries most of the squad would have got plenty of games anyway.

As for all the signings it was only a week ago that Charlie Nicholas did a feature on Fernandinho's performance at Everton, along the lines of him being the exact type of player that Arsenal require.
Mangala might still prove to be a good signing, but it's a lot of money to spend on potential, especially when ypu've got Denayer and the forgotten man Rekik already on the books.

 

[Blue Hefner]

I wouldn't entertain selling Kompany, or Aguero, Yaya and Zabeleta for that matter.

We have to keep a spine and as well as their ability they have the experience of doing the business when it matters.

I'm all for keeping a spine, just as long as they are always fit, and more importantly, playing well.

Kompany is forever breaking down, and as alluded on other threads, his popularity and reputation have saved him from harsher criticism after some pretty dreadful performances

Zabaleta is also having a bad run of form which has stretched to longer than many of his fan club would concede.

Yaya has been our most influential player since the takeover, but he's not getting any younger.

Aguero has struggled with his fitness for almost three seasons.

That's why Pellegrini should have rotated less because thanks to all the recurring injuries most of the squad would have got plenty of games anyway.

As for all the signings it was only a week ago that Charlie Nicholas did a feature on Fernandinho's performance at Everton, along the lines of him being the exact type of player that Arsenal require.
Mangala might still prove to be a good signing, but it's a lot of money to spend on potential, especially when ypu've got Denayer and the forgotten man Rekik already on the books.

I agree about the possible sale of Aguero and Kompany due to thier injury record but there are other players that need flogging before them, I'd say 5 or 6.

If the side was settled, playing well and just needed a bit of tinkering then I'd consider selling Aguero if the money was right but he's got to get the Derby record first!

 

[City_Sean]

This is a massive summer coming up. We really need to ads 2 or 3 world class players to give the squad a lift. It's no good buying just squad players, You need someone who offers something different

 

[quiet_riot]

This is a massive summer coming up. We really need to ads 2 or 3 world class players to give the squad a lift. It's no good buying just squad players, You need someone who offers something different

I agree, but it's probably only going to be in wide areas if we buy a 'superstar' who will start more often than not. Otherwise, which forward will displace Aguero? Not many. In central midfield it hinges on the Yaya Toure saga and how he and his cockroach agent manufacture a move, and in defence, again not many will displace VK and then there's the 'we spent 32mil on a 'star' last year' train of thought.

So for me, it has to be a World Class winger/wide forward to replace the shite of Navas and Jovetic.

 

[BayernMan]

Maybe we should stop saying buy x, buy y, buy z & concentrate on developing & working with & keeping the players we already have & moulding them into a real team who are not constantly looking over their shoulders wondering who is being mooted for their job? Or is this too radical a thought?

Top post! People here should stop thinking your club is R.Madrid because of you try to play their game you will lose. You don't necessarily need a team full of "Galacticos" to be the best.

 

[Scaring Europe to Death]

Maybe we should stop saying buy x, buy y, buy z & concentrate on developing & working with & keeping the players we already have & moulding them into a real team who are not constantly looking over their shoulders wondering who is being mooted for their job? Or is this too radical a thought?

Top post! People here should stop thinking your club is R.Madrid because of you try to play their game you will lose. You don't necessarily need a team full of "Galacticos" to be the best.

I agree, but to be fair the majority of complaints are more to do with our recent departures and whether or not their replacements are better.

For example we sold De Jong and then spent almost £50m on Rodwell, Garcia, and Fernando.

 

[blueincy]

Not a 'wum' in the slightest!

What exactly do you disagree with?
I may have been harsh on Dzecko but Bony has been bought now so he's sellable

It may of escaped your attention that our manager wants four strikers at the club and the Beast has been sold with a pre sale loan agreement in place.
Dzeko has been out injured most of the season and last season when the Beast wasn't firing and Aguero was out injured he stepped up and helped us win the League like he has done before. So with that in mind you sir are a WUM.

It hasn't escaped my attention at all but what's wrong with selling Dzecko and buying someone younger? Like I said, I may have been harsh on Dzecko but that's the only part of the most you have picked up on

A 'wum' as far as I know, is someone who diliberately posts to wind people up - that's isn't the case here and you seem to be struggling to back up your claim - your only response was to pick up on one aspect which I already conceded may have been harsh

It has escaped your attention because we still only have 3 strikers if DZEKO is sold, but 4 when Bony arrives..
You talk about bringing in some younger better hungrier players, who?
We had someone younger called John Guidetti but he wasn't offered the chance even though MP inquired about his availability because he rated him when he was Manager at Malaga. Not Premier League material is what's thrown around on here.
Fernando First season and you're showing him the door.
Mangala's first season playing with different partners all the time and you're showing him the door.
Jovetic the only standout player in yesterdays game and you're showing him the door.
All three of these players mentioned are Quality Yet you want younger inexperienced players which you will probably be on here slagging off in their first season anyway, ask Aston Villa what they think about your younger hungrier I won't say better players analogy.

 

[mosssideblue]

Maybe we should stop saying buy x, buy y, buy z & concentrate on developing & working with & keeping the players we already have & moulding them into a real team who are not constantly looking over their shoulders wondering who is being mooted for their job? Or is this too radical a thought?

Top post! People here should stop thinking your club is R.Madrid because of you try to play their game you will lose. You don't necessarily need a team full of "Galacticos" to be the best.

I agree, but to be fair the majority of complaints are more to do with losing a game.

For example we sold De Jong and then spent almost £50m on Rodwell, Garcia, and Fernando.

Edited

 

[Blue Hefner]

It may of escaped your attention that our manager wants four strikers at the club and the Beast has been sold with a pre sale loan agreement in place.
Dzeko has been out injured most of the season and last season when the Beast wasn't firing and Aguero was out injured he stepped up and helped us win the League like he has done before. So with that in mind you sir are a WUM.

It hasn't escaped my attention at all but what's wrong with selling Dzecko and buying someone younger? Like I said, I may have been harsh on Dzecko but that's the only part of the most you have picked up on

A 'wum' as far as I know, is someone who diliberately posts to wind people up - that's isn't the case here and you seem to be struggling to back up your claim - your only response was to pick up on one aspect which I already conceded may have been harsh

It has escaped your attention because we still only have 3 strikers if DZEKO is sold, but 4 when Bony arrives..
You talk about bringing in some younger better hungrier players, who?
We had someone younger called John Guidetti but he wasn't offered the chance even though MP inquired about his availability because he rated him when he was Manager at Malaga. Not Premier League material is what's thrown around on here.
Fernando First season and you're showing him the door.
Mangala's first season playing with different partners all the time and you're showing him the door.
Jovetic the only standout player in yesterdays game and you're showing him the door.
All three of these players mentioned are Quality Yet you want younger inexperienced players which you will probably be on here slagging off in their first season anyway, ask Aston Villa what they think about your younger hungrier I won't say better players analogy.

We don't need 4 strikers if we are only in one competition because lets be honest we are not likely to get past Barca

Take away our 4 to players and there is a huge drop off in quality. In my opinion the squad is unbalanced in age and quality

 

[Mr HJ]

Someone at the club needs to be brave and make some difficult decisions. Looking at how other teams are now playing against us I think Bony will have a major impact. We need someone to either create space for Sergio and Silva, or to utilise the space these two create. Since issuing long term contracts to several of our squad - which is an admiral stance - this seems to have back fired in some cases. Kolarov and Edin in particular look as though they no longer have the appetite. All our players are good, what makes the difference is desire and attitude. Look at Fernandinho last year, knowing he had to make a mark to get into the world cup squad he was fantastic. That's not saying he is now guilty of not trying, rather an illustration of how desire can elevate you to the next level. So back to my brave comment, we need to despatch to Italy AK, SJ for a start, get tougher on the likes of Sinclair and Milner maybe cut our losses and finally tell Edin his future is in the balance. To be fair to Edin he had a great last part of the season. Unfortunately Sergio's early season form made it clear who was first choice and Edin has returned to his usual torpor and then had his injury which compounded his situation. He now faces even more competition. I am sure that they will sort it out and perhaps we will look back at the last two results as a pivotal time in our conquest to join the elite?

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

It hasn't escaped my attention at all but what's wrong with selling Dzecko and buying someone younger? Like I said, I may have been harsh on Dzecko but that's the only part of the most you have picked up on

A 'wum' as far as I know, is someone who diliberately posts to wind people up - that's isn't the case here and you seem to be struggling to back up your claim - your only response was to pick up on one aspect which I already conceded may have been harsh

It has escaped your attention because we still only have 3 strikers if DZEKO is sold, but 4 when Bony arrives..
You talk about bringing in some younger better hungrier players, who?
We had someone younger called John Guidetti but he wasn't offered the chance even though MP inquired about his availability because he rated him when he was Manager at Malaga. Not Premier League material is what's thrown around on here.
Fernando First season and you're showing him the door.
Mangala's first season playing with different partners all the time and you're showing him the door.
Jovetic the only standout player in yesterdays game and you're showing him the door.
All three of these players mentioned are Quality Yet you want younger inexperienced players which you will probably be on here slagging off in their first season anyway, ask Aston Villa what they think about your younger hungrier I won't say better players analogy.

We don't need 4 strikers if we are only in one competition because lets be honest we are not likely to get past Barca

Take away our 4 to players and there is a huge drop off in quality. In my opinion the squad is unbalanced in age and quality

I love quotes like this one. Would we 'have a chance against Barcelona' if there was no Messi, Masherano, Neymar and Suarez (or Piquet)? What about Real Madrid with no Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema and Garcia? Chelsea with no Hazard, Costa, Matic and Terry? Of course we would. That's what taking any teams top 4 players does!

 

[IcriedwhenTueartleft]

If we spend £80 million in the summer (if we have the funds to do that & allowed by FPP) then like most others I'd like to see us buying 2 £40m players, people who will genuinely enhance the team and who are more or less the finished article. I don't want us to spunk it on more £15m squad players like Navas and Fernando, we've got a big enough squad as it is and the Rodwells and their like have not added anything..
I'd also like us to finally introduce a couple of the younger players, whether it be Rekik or Denayer, or whoever is good enough to step up so we can finally be serious about the plans to take advantage of this famed academy.
We just seem to be paying casual lip service to youth in the last few years, sticking a couple of guys on the bench for cup games is a bit of a token gesture and two weeks later they're nowhere near the first team again.

 

[give it to gordon]

Maybe we should stop saying buy x, buy y, buy z & concentrate on developing & working with & keeping the players we already have & moulding them into a real team who are not constantly looking over their shoulders wondering who is being mooted for their job? Or is this too radical a thought?

I think thats a good post in every walk of live if you think you arent wanted you subconsciously 'give up' you might think you are still giving 100% but you arent.

 

[Bill]

We should have paid Hazard/ Iscos parents what they wanted and got one of them here.

I think that Hazard wanted London and was pretty clear on that.

The biggest problem is that we adopt a game plan that is built on quality players displaying 110% patience, so we see a pattern of play where we dominate possession, and most of the stats except goals scored, and pass it backwards and sideways to people who are in no position to move the ball on, through the middle, beating players and opening up the middle of the pitch. We try to get round the back with our attacking FBs but in a twinkle it breaks down with a poor finish and we are immediately under the cosh with two or three defenders backtracking like fury with three or four attackers bearing down on them - Burnley, Sunderland, Boro. All ordinary sides but who are organised to play all day against the pattern of play we adopt.

We used to play with panache, creativity, flamboyance, and we are becoming less convincing each match.

nope. we lost him at the 11th hour. we were fannying.

 

[Thenumber1blue]

Why is Hart in this original list ?