Toni Kroos

[Shaelumstash]

I'm sure he'd be ok, but I don't see what he brings, that we haven't already got.

We were found out last season because of a lack of energy, not because we don't have players who can knock a ball around.

Think you're being a bit short sighted here mate.

Pep usually plays with a deep lying playmaker. He calls it a Pivote, Italians call it a Registar, some commentators call it a quarter back.

The job is to take the ball off the defenders and play sharp penetrating passes to players further forward, preferably centrally. They should read the game well, intercept passes when they can, remain positionally disciplined, and have huge quality on the ball.

The best examples of players in that position are Busquets, Xavi Alonso, Pirlo. None of them run around a lot and press the ball. They stay in their position and dictate play.

Kroos is the best in the world in this position. He doesn't run around a lot and close people down, that's not his job. The system works best with the Pivote holding his position, and the two centre mids in front of him pressing the ball. Hopefully Gundogan and Fernandinho will press enough so Kroos wouldn't have to.

Yes we need more energy in midfield, more pressing. But swapping Yaya for Gundogan has gone a long way to addressing that. Fernandinho now won't be pressing on his own, he's got someone else to help him.

If all 3 CM's press at the same time, you'd completely lose shape and be all over the place. The Pivote's job it to hold position, not to press. We need more of a Gareth Barry than a Nigel DeJong in that role.

Kroos would be a better signing than Pogba in my opinion. Kroos' technique, intelligence and quality on the ball is on a completely different level to Pogba. He's obviously nowhere near him physically, but he makes up for thst with his football intelligence.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Think you're being a bit short sighted here mate.

Pep usually plays with a deep lying playmaker. He calls it a Pivote, Italians call it a Registar, some commentators call it a quarter back.

The job is to take the ball off the defenders and play sharp penetrating passes to players further forward, preferably centrally. They should read the game well, intercept passes when they can, remain positionally disciplined, and have huge quality on the ball.

The best examples of players in that position are Busquets, Xavi Alonso, Pirlo. None of them run around a lot and press the ball. They stay in their position and dictate play.

Kroos is the best in the world in this position. He doesn't run around a lot and close people down, that's not his job. The system works best with the Pivote holding his position, and the two centre mids in front of him pressing the ball. Hopefully Gundogan and Fernandinho will press enough so Kroos wouldn't have to.

Yes we need more energy in midfield, more pressing. But swapping Yaya for Gundogan has gone a long way to addressing that. Fernandinho now won't be pressing on his own, he's got someone else to help him.

If all 3 CM's press at the same time, you'd completely lose shape and be all over the place. The Pivote's job it to hold position, not to press. We need more of a Gareth Barry than a Nigel DeJong in that role.

Kroos would be a better signing than Pogba in my opinion. Kroos' technique, intelligence and quality on the ball is on a completely different level to Pogba. He's obviously nowhere near him physically, but he makes up for thst with his football intelligence.

But he does it in a completely different league.

You are talking about swapping Yaya for Gundogan, why not just play Yaya where Kroos would play, with more 'legs' & better organisation around him ?

 

[Shaelumstash]

But he does it in a completely different league.

You are talking about swapping Yaya for Gundogan, why not just play Yaya where Kroos would play, with more 'legs' & better organisation around him ?

He's done it in the German league, the Spanish League, the Champions League, the World Cup, the Euro's. He's well capable of doing it the Premier League.

I've never bought in to valuing Premier League experience. That's how you end up buying Rocky Santa Cruz, Tal Ben Haim, Kolo Toure etc. Mark Hughes always valued buying PL experience and it got him sacked from City, he relegated QPR with it. His best signings at City and Stoke (Kompany, Zabba, Bojan, Shaquiri) have come from players with zero PL experience.

Yaya is one of my favourite ever City players, an absolute legend of the club. He's got the technique to play that Pivote role, but I'm not sure he's got the discipline, motivation or physicality to play there anymore.

He played that role for Barca and Pep didn't fancy him then when he was at his physical peak. I'd be very surprised if he's had a U-turn and has faith in him now.

On the other hand, Guardiola loved Kroos at Bayern, he was fuming that the board sold him. He wanted to keep him has spoken very highly of him since he left.

 

[Neville Kneville]

He's done it in the German league, the Spanish League, the Champions League, the World Cup, the Euro's. He's well capable of doing it the Premier League.

I've never bought in to valuing Premier League experience. That's how you end up buying Rocky Santa Cruz, Tal Ben Haim, Kolo Toure etc. Mark Hughes always valued buying PL experience and it got him sacked from City, he relegated QPR with it. His best signings at City and Stoke (Kompany, Zabba, Bojan, Shaquiri) have come from players with zero PL experience.

Yaya is one of my favourite ever City players, an absolute legend of the club. He's got the technique to play that Pivote role, but I'm not sure he's got the discipline, motivation or physicality to play there anymore.

He played that role for Barca and Pep didn't fancy him then when he was at his physical peak. I'd be very surprised if he's had a U-turn and has faith in him now.

On the other hand, Guardiola loved Kroos at Bayern, he was fuming that the board sold him. He wanted to keep him has spoken very highly of him since he left.

I think Yaya/Busquets at Barca did much more than Kroos does. I don't think it's the same job. Modric was like Kroos minder for Madrid, but imo miles better with the ball too & then they have a 3rd player minding both of them. Yaya/Busquets didn't have that, they had to do both jobs.

Imo, David Silva could do what Kroos does if asked. But nobody, including Kroos, could do it week in week out in the Prem, under a Pellegrini. With a whole team pressing & better organisation, then maybe, but in that case then I think we already have players who can probably do it. The Prem is much quicker & you can knock 5-10% off Kroos pass completion rate in a typical top Prem side imo, but of course the Pep factor would maybe balance that out, but then the same could be perhaps be said of Yaya, Silva, Nasri if they are put in that kind of role with more help around them.

 

[hartshairgel]

I think Yaya/Busquets at Barca did much more than Kroos does. I don't think it's the same job. Modric was like Kroos minder for Madrid, but imo miles better with the ball too & then they have a 3rd player minding both of them. Yaya/Busquets didn't have that, they had to do both jobs.

Imo, David Silva could do what Kroos does if asked. But nobody, including Kroos, could do it week in week out in the Prem, under a Pellegrini. With a whole team pressing & better organisation, then maybe, but in that case then I think we already have players who can probably do it. The Prem is much quicker & you can knock 5-10% off Kroos pass completion rate in a typical top Prem side imo, but of course the Pep factor would maybe balance that out, but then the same could be perhaps be said of Yaya, Silva, Nasri if they are put in that kind of role with more help around them.

Nonsense. Kroos is and remains one of the best in his position in the world. There's no way Yaya or Silva could do that job. They don't have the same energy or strength. Kroos can also break up play something Yaya never does and Silva rarely. Its time now to say goodbye to the likes of Yaya and Nasri both of whom, now, represent what is wrong with the team. Need better, faster, players with a more professional approach. These two behave like spoilt brats and both need to be moved on if we are to improve.

 

[Shaelumstash]

I think Yaya/Busquets at Barca did much more than Kroos does. I don't think it's the same job. Modric was like Kroos minder for Madrid, but imo miles better with the ball too & then they have a 3rd player minding both of them. Yaya/Busquets didn't have that, they had to do both jobs.

Imo, David Silva could do what Kroos does if asked. But nobody, including Kroos, could do it week in week out in the Prem, under a Pellegrini. With a whole team pressing & better organisation, then maybe, but in that case then I think we already have players who can probably do it. The Prem is much quicker & you can knock 5-10% off Kroos pass completion rate in a typical top Prem side imo, but of course the Pep factor would maybe balance that out, but then the same could be perhaps be said of Yaya, Silva, Nasri if they are put in that kind of role with more help around them.

Did you watch Germany the other night? Or against England? Kroos does exactly the same job as Busquets does for Barca. A deep-lying playmaker who holds position and doesn't press the ball. He has Khediera higher up than him who presses.

For Madrid against us he played a different role in the first game. He was one of two pressing (him and Modric) with Carasco behind them who was there to tackle and give it simple. I don't think he'd be very good in that role in the PL because he's not physical or athletic enough to get box to box at that pace.

But as a deep-lying playmaker he's got all of the qualities needed. He's no slower than Gareth Barry or Xavi Alonso and they were both superb doing a similar role in the PL.

I disagree that Yaya could do that role effectively anymore for the reasons I listed in the last post. And I don't think it's suited to Silva either, for a multitude of reasons.

Silva is our best player, he should start in every game for us. But not as our deepest midfielder, that just wouldn't suit him whatsoever.

 

[markbmcfc]

I would penetrate myself if we signed Kroos.

Unfortunately, I think it's a step too far for us. Even if that rumoured asking price is accurate. I think it's more likely Yaya will play the pivote roll.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Did you watch Germany the other night? Or against England? Kroos does exactly the same job as Busquets does for Barca. A deep-lying playmaker who holds position and doesn't press the ball. He has Khediera higher up than him who presses.

For Madrid against us he played a different role in the first game. He was one of two pressing (him and Modric) with Carasco behind them who was there to tackle and give it simple. I don't think he'd be very good in that role in the PL because he's not physical or athletic enough to get box to box at that pace.

But as a deep-lying playmaker he's got all of the qualities needed. He's no slower than Gareth Barry or Xavi Alonso and they were both superb doing a similar role in the PL.

I disagree that Yaya could do that role effectively anymore for the reasons I listed in the last post. And I don't think it's suited to Silva either, for a multitude of reasons.

Silva is our best player, he should start in every game for us. But not as our deepest midfielder, that just wouldn't suit him whatsoever.

I watched Germany the other night & imo he knocked the ball around nicely under absolutely no pressure whatsoever.

In the flesh, I thought Modric was a level above him.

 

[hartshairgel]

I would penetrate myself if we signed Kroos.

Unfortunately, I think it's a step too far for us. Even if that rumoured asking price is accurate. I think it's more likely Yaya will play the pivote roll.

Animal or object ? What is the the rumour on asking price ? Madrid will need to fund Pogba and that may be an opportunity for us to bid £30M

 

[Shaelumstash]

I watched Germany the other night & imo he knocked the ball around nicely under absolutely no pressure whatsoever.

In the flesh, I thought Modric was a level above him.

I agree he was under very little pressure. Ukraine didn't press up high and put him under pressure. But he's also exceptional at finding space in that position. Similar to how Silva and Aguero find 5 yards of space with a subtle movement, he does similar movements in a deeper position.

I agree as a box to box player Modric is a better player. Modric is arguably the best box to box midfielder in the world right now. And as I said earlier, if we bought Kroos I don't think he's be suitable to play box to box, he doesn't have the required physicality. He'd have to play as a deep-lying playmaker. The only player in the world who comes close to him in that role is Busquets, and for me Kroos is a level above.