Toni Kroos

domalino said:
You said Kroos wasn't playing as a 10, I showed you a Germany's official teamsheet showing he was. That's not a red herring mate.

Kroos average position is definitely ahead of Can's, even if can had touches further forward than Kroos got.

He's left of centre so he opens up to pass on his right foot, not because he was on the left of a 3 man midfield.
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Again, I don't know if you do this as a joke or you purposely like being obfuscatory. I said I didn't like numbers and I'd rather describe positions to avoid confusion. And then went ahead to do that. How that equates to saying he didn't play 10 beats me. But I'm sure you can explain.

Feel free to include the exact quotes of me saying he didn't play10
 
Dax777 said:
Yaya in his prime even without the goals was fantastic footballer.. And that Kroos is a fantastically sound technical footballer is not in question.

That he lacks Athletism, and puts in below average effort defensively to no complaints here, is what's at issue.

And your attempts to use one block as evidence he worked hard, when time after time on lots of the French attack he was the least aggressive of CM of the 3 on display and shied away from battle. Something Yaya gets slated for here constantly.

But feel free to Stoke the red herring argument. You have a knack for it.
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You say he is Yaya without the goals. Fair enough. But which Yaya? The one we saw the past two years? No way. The one we saw when we won the title? I would agree. He is Yaya from that season without the goals. That season Yaya was arguably the best player in the world so I would take Kroos if that is who you are comparing him to.
 
@domalino
I just went to examine the Kroos touches video again. Feel free to do the same. It's above.

In the first half alone on 25 of Kroos's started touches, Can was far ahead of him. On 4 touches, they were about even and on 3 touches Kroos was ahead of Can. On 1 of those 3 touches, Kroos overlapped Can. Thus if you only count starting positions when he initially got the ball started, only 2ice in the first 45 minutes did Kroos start a touch where he was physically ahead of Can.

But go ahead, show me the team sheet again. :) And explain how it's not a red herring.
 
BlueDeadHead said:
You say he is Yaya without the goals. Fair enough. But which Yaya? The one we saw the past two years? No way. The one we saw when we won the title? I would agree. He is Yaya from that season without the goals. That season Yaya was arguably the best player in the world so I would take Kroos if that is who you are comparing him to.
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Hence why I said "Yaya in his Prime" :) I think that use of phrase answers your question.

BTW, I'm not arguing we should keep Yaya or use him. I was just saying, their ball touches and pass completions were similar. And both are fantastic in that aspect. But that was not what our fans complained about with Yaya.

I think the point I was attempting to make there was that we seem to be ignoring a softness about Kroos. Not that he wasn't a fantastic footballer. I already stated he was.
 
Ashleymcduff said:
Kroos would have our midfield purring like a cat.
Imagine the passes into kdb , sane and kun
If we somehow managed to get him I'd be convinced we would have the league sown up by April
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FFS sake ... I've never seen such an optimistic view ... By April you say ? Any chance of a bigger impact and getting it done more than 4 weeks in advance of the end of season ? ;)
 
Dax777 said:
Hence why I said "Yaya in his Prime" :) I think that use of phrase answers your question.

BTW, I'm not arguing we should keep Yaya or use him. I was just saying, their ball touches and pass completions were similar. And both are fantastic in that aspect. But that was not what our fans complained about with Yaya.

I think the point I was attempting to make there was that we seem to be ignoring a softness about Kroos. Not that he wasn't a fantastic footballer. I already stated he was.
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I think you're slightly missing the point on Kroos. He'll be playing as a Pivote / deep lying playmaker with two midfielders in front of him pressing the ball. It won't be his job to win tackles and put people under pressure. That's the job of the two guys in front of him. If that resistence is broken, the strategy will be for the whole team to drop back in to a defensive shape, each holding a position. It's likely teams are going to try and hit us early on the break as we'll be playing a high line.

This is a world removed from how Yaya was exposed defensively last season. He was exposed because we were constantly outnumbered in the middle of the park and our two man midfield got outnumbered and overran. I'm willing to bet any figure you like that not a single team is going to outnumber us in midfield next season. I can't recall a game in Guardiola's career where that has happened. Yet Pellegrini set us up that way for two full seasons.

Kroos' job won't be to win the ball back. It will be to take the ball off the defenders, dictate play, set the tempo from deep and hold his position.
 
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