Toni Kroos

[blueparrot]

Shael,

Take a look at the Pogba touches video. Ignore Pogba and pay close attention to Kroos. You'd see some disturbing attributes YOU used to complain about regarding Yaya. On multiple occasions, he shoesc no interest in joining in the defensive effort. Watch his actions when Griezmann scores. He just stands above the 18, watching proceedings lime a paying fan.

Not that it was his job to mark Griezmann. But there is Pogba with the ball at the corner inside his team's box and he leisurely just watches.

On 2 occasions you see Hector and Draxler run past him to go hell on defense, Kroos is barely jogging. On the Second it was Can and someone else. He often showed no interest in getting back into play once the ball got behind him.

These are worrying traits. Bit Domalino is trying to paper over it by saying he was playing 10, whatever that means. These are worrying characteristics regardless of where he plays.

Effort when your team is out of position should be none negotiable for everyone. Talk less a Central midfielder.

All that may or may not be true, but Pep knows Kroos and knows exactly what he is getting defensively. If he isn't worried by it neither am I.

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

Cant see Kroos coming, mainly as I midfield is rammed we really need another defender and forward and a keeper

 

[Neville Kneville]

Shael,

Take a look at the Pogba touches video. Ignore Pogba and pay close attention to Kroos. You'd see some disturbing attributes YOU used to complain about regarding Yaya. On multiple occasions, he shoesc no interest in joining in the defensive effort. Watch his actions when Griezmann scores. He just stands above the 18, watching proceedings lime a paying fan.

Not that it was his job to mark Griezmann. But there is Pogba with the ball at the corner inside his team's box and he leisurely just watches.

On 2 occasions you see Hector and Draxler run past him to go hell on defense, Kroos is barely jogging. On the Second it was Can and someone else. He often showed no interest in getting back into play once the ball got behind him.

These are worrying traits. Bit Domalino is trying to paper over it by saying he was playing 10, whatever that means. These are worrying characteristics regardless of where he plays.

Effort when your team is out of position should be none negotiable for everyone. Talk less a Central midfielder.

That's exactly how I see it & I'm wondering why he gets a free pass on it & Yaya gets crucified for the same (often with justification). And if that free pass will still be there if it's the rags scoring & he gets pulled up on tv for it afterwards, like Yaya.

 

[Neville Kneville]

All that may or may not be true, but Pep knows Kroos and knows exactly what he is getting defensively. If he isn't worried by it neither am I.

Assuming he is actually in for him.

None of his other teams have a Kroos type player in them & he says himself that such players need to be more athletic than he was, in the modern game.

 

[blueparrot]

Assuming he is actually in for him.

None of his other teams have a Kroos type player in them & he says himself that such players need to be more athletic than he was, in the modern game.

Very true, but he was a big admirer when at Bayern, though not in the pivot role some posters have him in. I still expect to see Stones at least tried as the pivot especially if we do sign Bonucci.

 

[Super David Silva 21]

Out of everyone this really needs to be done.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Very true, but he was a big admirer when at Bayern, though not in the pivot role some posters have him in. I still expect to see Stones at least tried as the pivot especially if we do sign Bonucci.

In the Prem, I would feel much happier with a more robust player than Kroos in that position. Especially in what is almost certain to be a very attacking team, with fullbacks going forward.

 

[domalino]

@domalino
I just went to examine the Kroos touches video again. Feel free to do the same. It's above.

In the first half alone on 25 of Kroos's started touches, Can was far ahead of him. On 4 touches, they were about even and on 3 touches Kroos was ahead of Can. On 1 of those 3 touches, Kroos overlapped Can. Thus if you only count starting positions when he initially got the ball started, only 2ice in the first 45 minutes did Kroos start a touch where he was physically ahead of Can.

But go ahead, show me the team sheet again. :) And explain how it's not a red herring.

Why did I have a feeling I'd wake up to more comments about this from you?

Just to finally settle this because of your apparent inability to read the heatmap. Here is the average positions map from the game

Which quite clearly shows number 18, Kroos, playing much further ahead of both Schweinsteiger (7) and Emre Can (14).

In fact he's almost as far forward as Ozil.


So to sum this up, we have:

1) The teamsheet submitted by Germany, showing Kroos as a 10.

2) The heatmap showing (to everyone except you) that Kroos was further forward.

3) The Average position map, showing that Kroos was further forward than the 2 central midfielders.


I'm not going to argue this any further because it's so bloody clear to see. Anyone who watched the game could see he was playing further forward than the other two.

 

[blueparrot]

In the Prem, I would feel much happier with a more robust player than Kroos in that position. Especially in what is almost certain to be a very attacking team, with fullbacks going forward.

Agree, from what I understand the pivot is expected to drop into the centre backs when the full backs are up the pitch and that's not Kroos, but it could be Stones.

 

[domalino]

Agree, from what I understand the pivot is expected to drop into the centre backs when the full backs are up the pitch and that's not Kroos, but it could be Stones.

During their one season at Bayern, Guardiola never played Kroos as the solo pivot. When Guardiola played a single pivot 4141/433 formation, Kroos was always one of the 2 attacking midfielders, otherwise he played next to Lahm in the 2 of a 4231.

I assume the same would be the case here.

He'd play something like

-------------------------striker

-Winger ------Kroos--------Gundogan------ Winger

---------- --------- Fernandinho


or

------------- Striker

-winger ------Silva--------winger

----Fernandinho--Kroos