Toni Kroos

blueparrot said:
Agree, from what I understand the pivot is expected to drop into the centre backs when the full backs are up the pitch and that's not Kroos, but it could be Stones.
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If Kroos is so good in that position I'm wondering why the Germans played Pigshagger there last night instead. I think it's because their manager doesn't fancy him coping with France in front of the cbs.

That then begs the question of whether he is the best centre mid we could possibly have, further forward.

If we compare him to top players in that position in the past, Gerrard, Scholes, Lampard for example, I don't think he stacks up, at all.
 
Really want to see this one done, Kroos is the final piece in the puzzle of midfield dominance for us. He's easily the most gifted option out there, particularly for passing and possession, both key aspects of Pep's game.

Thiago would make a good substitute but I can't see Bayern giving him up easy and honestly Kroos is just plain better.

I know Pep asked him to be our number 1 priority this summer, but unless we meet his release clause, it seems unlikely Real will part ways with him outside a genuine run on Pogba.

Here's hoping it all falls into place.

ColinLee said:
I have trouble fitting Silva and Yaha in plus plenty of others, using just present personnel I keep coming up with
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Don't think we brought in Nolito to have him sit on the bench mate.
 
ColinLee said:
I have trouble fitting Silva and Yaha in plus plenty of others, using just present personnel I keep coming up with
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If Fernandinho doesn't make Pep's starting 11 more often than not, I will be astonished. Not sure whether it will be in midfield or defence but surely he will be in there somewhere?
 
Marvin said:
I like your midfield of Kroos, Gundogan and Fernandinho, but where's Silva and KDB? I look at City's squad and I try and put it into a 11, and I have trouble with KDB and Silva.
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I wouldn't play all three unless the game required it. The fact is, we've no idea on what shape/formation Guardiola might use and where he'll put players. Fernandinho might be used in a completely different role.

If we're getting width from our full backs then there's no reason you couldn't have Silva and KDB both behind Aguero, with two of Kroos/Dinho/Gundogan behind them.
 
supercity88 said:
I wouldn't play all three unless the game required it. The fact is, we've no idea on what shape/formation Guardiola might use and where he'll put players. Fernandinho might be used in a completely different role.

If we're getting width from our full backs then there's no reason you couldn't have Silva and KDB both behind Aguero, with two of Kroos/Dinho/Gundogan behind them.
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In fear of going off topic and with the lack of full back talk he may be thinking going 3 at the back?

He played 3-1-2-1-3 on many occasions at Bayern last season with success, this would also back up the reason we're chasing both Bonucci and Stones.

Just a thought........
 
F**kin hell. I thought we have made some progress on Kroos after seeing the increase of pages in the thread since I last opened.
Seems we haven't put a bid yet.:-(
 
Danamy said:
In fear of going off topic and with the lack of full back talk he may be thinking going 3 at the back?

He played 3-1-2-1-3 on many occasions at Bayern last season with success, this would also back up the reason we're chasing both Bonucci and Stones.

Just a thought........
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My thinking exactly. Going 3 at the back can be the only reason to go after 2 more CBs for around 100 million. Add to that not a lot of rumors for LB (except Rodriguez recently). Also add to that we arn't going in for another CM would only suggest that.
 
Dax777 said:
Shael,

Take a look at the Pogba touches video. Ignore Pogba and pay close attention to Kroos. You'd see some disturbing attributes YOU used to complain about regarding Yaya. On multiple occasions, he shoesc no interest in joining in the defensive effort. Watch his actions when Griezmann scores. He just stands above the 18, watching proceedings lime a paying fan.

Not that it was his job to mark Griezmann. But there is Pogba with the ball at the corner inside his team's box and he leisurely just watches.

On 2 occasions you see Hector and Draxler run past him to go hell on defense, Kroos is barely jogging. On the Second it was Can and someone else. He often showed no interest in getting back into play once the ball got behind him.

These are worrying traits. Bit Domalino is trying to paper over it by saying he was playing 10, whatever that means. These are worrying characteristics regardless of where he plays.

Effort when your team is out of position should be none negotiable for everyone. Talk less a Central midfielder.
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I've seen plenty of Kroos and there is no escaping that he's not great defensively. He doesn't cover ground quickly, he's not agressive enough at winning it back, and yes, he can appear lazy when his team are out of possession.

However, the role I'd expect him to play for us is very similar to how Pirlo played the majority of his career. A deep lying playmaker who has two players in front of him pressing the ball. You could never accuse Pirlo of being Kante or Makele when defending, but he's one of the best midfielders of his generation because he's so good on the ball.

He plays in a specialist position. The best in the world currently in that role are Busquets, Alonso and Kroos. Busquets is the best defensively, but on the ball Kroos is leagues ahead of the other two.

If we played Kroos as one of two central midfielders in a 442 and expect him to tackle, dictate play and score 20 a season like Yaya did in 2014, he'd be a disaster. He's not got the engine, the pace, the power, the agression to play that role. Unfortunately neither has Yaya anymore.

But as a specialist in that Pivote role if he had Gundogan and Fernandinho in front of him pressing high up the pitch, I think his quality on the ball would be so good that his defensive limitations wouldn't be exposed too often. Sure, he'd get caught out every so often, but I think he'd make far more positive contributions than bad.

Guardiola has worked with him and knows his qualities, so on this occasion it's perfectly legitimate to say "In Pep we trust".
 
Shaelumstash said:
I've seen plenty of Kroos and there is no escaping that he's not great defensively. He doesn't cover ground quickly, he's not agressive enough at winning it back, and yes, he can appear lazy when his team are out of possession.

However, the role I'd expect him to play for us is very similar to how Pirlo played the majority of his career. A deep lying playmaker who has two players in front of him pressing the ball. You could never accuse Pirlo of being Kante or Makele when defending, but he's one of the best midfielders of his generation because he's so good on the ball.

He plays in a specialist position. The best in the world currently in that role are Busquets, Alonso and Kroos. Busquets is the best defensively, but on the ball Kroos is leagues ahead of the other two.
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It would be very surprising if he played there, because Pep didn't use him like that at all at Bayern Munich.

He was always one of 2 attacking midfielders ahead of the pivot (80% of the time) or playing next to Lahm in a midfield 2 in a 4231.
 
Danamy said:
In fear of going off topic and with the lack of full back talk he may be thinking going 3 at the back?

He played 3-1-2-1-3 on many occasions at Bayern last season with success, this would also back up the reason we're chasing both Bonucci and Stones.

Just a thought........
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I think we'll definitely see 3 at the back at times but I doubt he'd use it as a primary formation. Also when he used it at Bayern, he nearly always did so in a way that meant he could change to 4 at the back easily - either by having a full-back or midfielder as one of the 3 defenders.

It's also something he introduced in the 2nd and 3rd year at Bayern once the team had completely got hold of what he wanted from them. He started off 433/4231 until his tactics/style was second nature to them.

So, I personally don't think him going after Stones and Bonucci is anything more than wanting 4 very good central defenders, with at least 2 being very good at passing.
 
domalino said:
I think we'll definitely see 3 at the back at times but I doubt he'd use it as a primary formation. Also when he used it at Bayern, he nearly always did so in a way that meant he could change to 4 at the back easily - either by having a full-back or midfielder as one of the 3 defenders.

It's also something he introduced in the 2nd and 3rd year at Bayern once the team had completely got hold of what he wanted from them. He started off 433/4231 until his tactics/style was second nature to them.

So, I personally don't think him going after Stones and Bonucci is anything more than wanting 4 very good central defenders, with at least 2 being very good at passing.
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I think Pep is telling the truth when he says he 'doesn't know' how we'll set up.

He is imo, signing players to give him options, then he'll see how it pans out. Be very surprised if we don't see a back 3 tried out. Then it depends how well it works. I also think we'll see 4-1-4-1 amongst his formations.

He has used Alonso, Martinez & even Boateng in front of the defence, so I wouldn't be surprised to see Stones or Denayer at least tried there.

I imagine that this time next year, we will see some players booted out & specific ones brought in, to fine tune it all. Right now he has no choice but to experiment.

I would really like to see how A Garcia does amongst our strongest team. I thought he looked the part v Chelsea, on & off the ball.
 
Yeah, I think I'd have Fernandinho as the more disciplined of the 3.

I wanted us to buy Pogba, but it's more based on potential rather than current ability. He's currently a player that would improve us, but he's also got the potential and raw talent to become one of the very best. But yeah, for £100m, you expect the finished product.
 
Assuming there are no errors in Pep Confidential it is pretty clear that Pep doesn't think Kroos can play the pivote role. They made a very big deal about how the first season was "saved" by shifting Kroos out of that role because he couldn't handle the defensive responsiblities against Mourinho's Chelsea and inserting Lahm
 
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