Tories win Copeland b-election.

[cibaman]

You may be right, they've already done it with Miliband, then gone further left with this bloke, both with disastrous
consequences although, other than McDonnell, I don't know who'd fit such a bill.
If they do go down that route, then it really is game up.

Your idea of disastrous consequences are probably very different to Corbyn's. He will consider himself a success if he moves the party permanently further left, removes the Blairites. He's naturally a poltician who favours opposition so wouldnt judge himself on how well Labour perform in elections.

 

[Hoghead]

Good to have principles though, Corbyn certainly has them, but then again, so did Castro.

and so did Stalin and Hitler. It's politicians / leaders who stick to their unwavering principles that become the monsters causing untold suffering to those who don't embrace their cause. Not everyone is the same and a good politician / leader is someone who can fit us all in to their political belief to a lesser or greater extent depending on your own views.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Care to explain?

As I said before, politics is as much about the messenger as the message and Corbyn, for all his virtues, isn't a very good messenger. People buy people, as they say, and people don't buy him.

When you're (Corbyn that is) losing what should be a solid seat to the governing party, seven years into a vicious and divisive campaign of austerity, then you're clearly a large part of the problem.

 

[Hamann Pineapple]

As I said before, politics is as much about the messenger as the message and Corbyn, for all his virtues, isn't a very good messenger. People buy people, as they say, and people don't buy him.

When you're (Corbyn that is) losing what should be a solid seat to the governing party, seven years into a vicious and divisive campaign of austerity, then you're clearly a large part of the problem.

Is he solely to blame though ? For various reasons (primarily his stance on nuclear weapons and Trident) he is an enemy of the establishment and media (Murdoch in particular). I don't think I've ever seen anyone in my lifetime portrayed as poorly as Corbyn has been on TV and in the written press. As much as people like to say they think for themselves the media shapes the vast majority of opinion amongst the electorate.

 

[beehive_bob]

A catastrophic result for Labour. As Corbyn seems destined to be leader for a while yet, one alternative to achieve an effective, credible opposition would be for the moderates in the Labour Party to team up with the Lib Dems and form a party called something like the Social Democratic Party which would be a force to be reckoned with for decades to come. Oh, wait.....

As for UKIP, not quite sure what their role is now. Farage said before the by-election that winning Stoke was fundamental to the party. And they lost. A Conservative PM allowed people to have their say on Europe and a Conservative government seems determined to carry out the people's instruction.

 

[sir baconface]

Would Owen Smith, Harriot Harman etc really be a better opposition leader ?

No, those two are utter garbage. No substance whatsoever. I can't see any point in another leadership election until a genuine big hitter emerges as a candidate. That inevitably means turmoil and unelectabilty for another year or two.

The new UKIP leader looks a dick on present performance. Farage is UKIP and UKIP is Farage. A consummate politician and hugely influential, despite what others might think. The electoral system militates against UKIP too. 3.8 million votes, 1 seat.

As for LibDem, I think they have seriously alienated the whole Brexit community. Another minority party up against the electoral system.

So if must be tempting for Theresa May to consider an election before she gets mired (maybe even sullied) in the exit negotiations.

 

[johnnytapia]

During the Brexit vote, the Remain campaign were staggered at Corbyn’s lack of abulity to grasp the facts; to get his and their message across. Three weeks prior to the vote he appeared on Andreew Marr, where he refused to categorically state what his/Labour’s position was. He did however get in three policies he said Labour would pursue at the next election:
Nuclear weapon-free submarines
Renationalise the car and airline industries
re-introduce secondary picketing.

A tweet landed at the Remain campaign headquarters, “how fucking hilarious this guy (Corbyn) is. Imagine, where re-introducing secondary picketing isn’t even your first or second worst idea.”

The man is an absolute liability. Labour will get destroyed at the next election. This country, electorally, has been proven to be centrist. Principles are great but as Alistair Campbell said, “your best day in opposition is never as good as your worst day in power."

 

[normskih]

As a Labour voter all my life I have to agree that Owen Smith (I wish he'd piss off with the banging the drum of the 2nd referendum) and Harriet Harman would be as much a disaster as Corbyn is. So I would be in a pickle about voting if an election was called as I will not vote Labour while Corbyn is Leader.

Agreed UKIP are nothing without Farage and Libdem? Who would want to vote for them after the Condem nonsense and after Farron's outspoken views against his own electorate in the referendum.

If Theresa May does go for an election she probably will win and it might be a lot to do with the lack of a strong opposition party.

 

[The perfect fumble]

As I said before, politics is as much about the messenger as the message and Corbyn, for all his virtues, isn't a very good messenger. People buy people, as they say, and people don't buy him.

When you're (Corbyn that is) losing what should be a solid seat to the governing party, seven years into a vicious and divisive campaign of austerity, then you're clearly a large part of the problem.

With respect and I mean it, that is not what you said...

Jeremy - the result was bad BECAUSE you've been elected twice.

You apportioned blame for the result in the first instance not on Corbyn himself but, and I quote... "BECAUSE you've been elected twice."

 

[M18CTID]

During the Brexit vote, the Remain campaign were staggered at Corbyn’s lack of abulity to grasp the facts; to get his and their message across. Three weeks prior to the vote he appeared on Andreew Marr, where he refused to categorically state what his/Labour’s position was. He did however get in three policies he said Labour would pursue at the next election:
Nuclear weapon-free submarines
Renationalise the car and airline industries
re-introduce secondary picketing.

A tweet landed at the Remain campaign headquarters, “how fucking hilarious this guy (Corbyn) is. Imagine, where re-introducing secondary picketing isn’t even your first or second worst idea.”

The man is an absolute liability. Labour will get destroyed at the next election. This country, electorally, has been proven to be centrist. Principles are great but as Alistair Campbell said, “your best day in opposition is never as good as your worst day in power."

Nail on the head mate. The vast majority of the electorate fall into the centrist category - they have no appetite for hard-left or hard-right politics and just want to get along in life. Labour have systematically failed to claim that middle ground in recent general elections, and by lurching further to the left under Corbyn they're making it even harder for themselves. I wouldn't mind but it's not like the Conservatives are actually that good, and I doubt that a lot that have started voting for them suddenly consider themselves as staunch Tories - they just come across as more capable of running the country and that's what appeals more to many centrist voters.