Tories win Copeland b-election.

[Prestwich_Blue]

With respect and I mean it, that is not what you said...


You apportioned blame for the result in the first instance not on Corbyn himself but, and I quote... "BECAUSE you've been elected twice."

Sorry I misunderstood what you were saying. I was listening to someone on the radio answering the question of whether it's his leadership that's the issue. Whoever it was said he's the undoubted leader as he's been elected twice by what's probably the largest membership of any political party in Europe.

Well that's fine but it doesn't mean he's an electable leader to the country in general. He is patently incapable of delivering a compelling message to those who could elect him. That's not to say he doesn't have such a message, as I've said, but the role of a leader is to communicate clearly and comprehensively, which he can't do.

 

[SWP's back]

I hear this often but do you have a view why? If someone believes that Tory policies are in the main intrinsically the best way to generate wealth and through that wealth creation, deliver the best public services for everyone, then surely an unopposed Tory government would be ideal?

Does your line therefore not presume that Tory policies are not intrinsically correct, which may or may not be true?

I throw this down simply to open up the debate.

I believe Tory policy on the economy is usually correct.

I have no time for their traditional social "family values". It's not stopped me voting for them several times however I tend to think that money in the pocket is more important.

I also take issue with a huge number of xenophobic Tory MPs who hark back to the times of empire.

 

[bluemoonmatt]

Sorry I misunderstood what you were saying. I was listening to someone on the radio answering the question of whether it's his leadership that's the issue. Whoever it was said he's the undoubted leader as he's been elected twice by what's probably the largest membership of any political party in Europe.

Well that's fine but it doesn't mean he's an electable leader to the country in general. He is patently incapable of delivering a compelling message to those who could elect him. That's not to say he doesn't have such a message, as I've said, but the role of a leader is to communicate clearly and comprehensively, which he can't do.

Precisely, due only to the affordable membership, practically everyone who would vote FOR HIM has seemingly signed up and whilst that is a six figure amount of people it still represents a very small amount of the countries electorate and of that hundred or more thousand members there are many thousand like me who paid a more princely figure to be a full member who thinks he is leading us to oblivion. The con is, while he is undisputed Leader of the party this carries zero weight when it's presented to the greater electorate.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Very well put. I hazard a guess that a 2005 Blair (ie not at his prime) would trounce todays Theresa the Appeaser. Fuck it even the widely despised Brown only got ousted in a hung parliament. It so fucking clear that an increasingly left leaning Labour movement is in an alarming state of regression. Its a fact that 'New Labour' appealed to the electorate not the £3 a member socialist worker/momentum hijacked Communist lite we now have under dear leader Corbyn.

I would agree, Blair circa 2005 knew the mood of the country. It was probably down to his father, a staunch Tory,
who imbued in him the naturally right of centre stance of the British electorate. The Tories, at this time, were mired
in sleaze, shagging around, and generally being arrogant arseholes, although the economy was in reasonably good shape,
something they are patently better at than Labour. Labour had proved itself unelectable by appointing Foot some years earlier,
and following the same path as him, which Corbyn is doing now, would be political suicide, so Tone formed New Labour,
a phenomenal success.
He is despised by the left who think he 'betrayed' them, yet he's the most successful leader they've ever had

 

[Hart of the Matter]

Things can only get better ;-)

 

[Chippy_boy]

Corbyn never wanted to be the leader. He'll step down as soon Labour can come up with an alternative hard left candidate, once the left have taken complete control of the party.

It's interesting you should say that. I was chatting with the Mrs about this earlier and we agreed that Corbyn may be a total fool, but he's a principled fool. I genuinely think he believes in what he says and he honestly thinks that his deluded ideas would be best for the country. On that basis, how could he possibly step down and hand over the reins to a Blair-like character whose poiicies Jeremy would doubtless completely disagree with? It would be a betrayal of his principles to do that. He'd have to step down and hand over the reins to another nutter like John McDonnell perhaps or that thicko, Dianne Abbott. And if someone like that took over, the electorate would just think WTF is this? This is just another version of Jezzer, only without the scruffy beard. They'd be no more electable at all.

The only scenario I can envisage is the daft sod ploughing the Labour Party spectacularly into the ground at the next election. They would be annihilated and then maybe just maybe he'd pack it in.

 

[GFBlue]

Are you saying the ups and downs of your life is the fault of the Tories?

Errr I'm not sure how you get that from my post. My life has been good, very bad and now very good again (in no small part thanks to Sheik Mansour and my second wife) thanks. I was more thinking of those poor souls who suffer as a result of poor Government policy/practice. And yes most of the really shit stuff has come from those who think that if you can't make money you don't deserve any real consideration.

 

[GFBlue]

Well those four topics I mentioned make him a

Liar
Dishonest
Hypocrite
Coward

Well done I'm glad you can run with these principles. The good old left and their superior morals

It makes him a politician who has from day one been hounded and vilified by our professional and unbiased press. You probably believe that Anthony Taylor is an Altrincham fan as well!

I am struggling to think of a politician that you could not level those accusations at (and we neither of us know the truth - only that which has been claimed in the press or by his opponents who of course have no need to lie?) since Pitt the Elder!

If you are happy that the morals of the Tories best represent your interests and those of the country then there is not much more that can be said and we will simply have to agree to disagree.

The only person in this exchange who lays any claim to superiority is you I'm afraid.

 

[hilts]

It makes him a politician who has from day one been hounded and vilified by our professional and unbiased press. You probably believe that Anthony Taylor is an Altrincham fan as well!

I am struggling to think of a politician that you could not level those accusations at (and we neither of us know the truth - only that which has been claimed in the press or by his opponents who of course have no need to lie?) since Pitt the Elder!

If you are happy that the morals of the Tories best represent your interests and those of the country then there is not much more that can be said and we will simply have to agree to disagree.

The only person in this exchange who lays any claim to superiority is you I'm afraid.

You said he was principled not me, I haven't even mentioned other parties or politicians so not sure where you even get that from. It's always a telling sign when someone tries to deflect. But but but other politicians aren't very honest you say. Doesn't cut it really I'm afraid.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Labour as a party has gone awry. As a kid growing up on a council estate, everyone's dad worked, either in factories
or a trade, we all read the Daily Mirror, folk were generally patriotic and had royalist leanings, but virtually all of them
voted Labour. Nowadays, Labour MP's are invariably middle class, career politicians, have no experience of their core vote,
and eschew these values. Then we have the sickening virtue signalling procession of multi millionaire luvvie actors.
settled in their Hampstead mansions lecturing folk about how racist and uncaring they are, people are sick and tired of
this type, the party needs to take a long hard look at itself, or it's gone.