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totally underwhelmed
- Thread starter fathellensbellend
- Start date
GStar said:Damocles said:Top post scorer, entirely agree with this.
Really?
The top teams don't adapt in any major way than perhaps a rotation here or there. They play to their strengths first, believeing that they will win the game based firstly, on that.
I wouldn't expect barca to adapt their philosophies, same way i wouldn't expect Chelsea to.
We have a team equal of the talent and ability to match any, we shouldn't be going to anywhere hoping 'not to get beat'... we should be going to every game with a plan of action on how to win.
You would like a team that has just been formed, that met each other a few days ago, that at least half of it played in the World Cup and has fitness hangovers, to go one of the most settled and organised team's home ground and try to do them 3-0?
Look at it this way.
Win all of our home games = 57 points.
Draw against the top 8 away = 8 points.
Lose the odd few = 0 points
Beat the bottom 6 = 18 points.
57 + 8 + 18 = 83 points.
Most years that wins us the league.
GStar
Well-Known Member
zeven said:No at spurs away in our first game, with new. thats just sucide.
That's your opinion, i couldn't disagree more.
We should go into every match with a plan of how to win. These players are top quality, even with the time they need to fully adapt they can still produce against any opposition.
It's going to take more than 1 or 2 games to build an understanding in the teamfathellensbellend said:the thread has moved on again, and many are linking caution to being successful, again under mancini's city, i have seen nothing to suggest this will be the case.
the truth is all sorts of different teams win trophies, greece in euro 2004, or barcelona of 2 years ago, or inter milan of last season.
comparing hughes's style to mancini's is irrelevent, we have mancini now, so that is all we need to look at.
i wish someone would ask him with the amazing talent at his disposal, all over the pitch, does he feel the need to attack with so few players, and so rarely gets any bodies in the box.
and why when we have spent millions on the defence, have the best 2 goalkeepers in the country do we need to further shield the defence with another 2/3 defensively minded players, especially against top sides.
i will be the 1st to return to this thread if i see an improvement versus liverpool, but it concerns me that when as a paying fan paying top dollar all over the country, the manager has no desire to entertain.
Damocles said:GStar said:Really?
The top teams don't adapt in any major way than perhaps a rotation here or there. They play to their strengths first, believeing that they will win the game based firstly, on that.
I wouldn't expect barca to adapt their philosophies, same way i wouldn't expect Chelsea to.
We have a team equal of the talent and ability to match any, we shouldn't be going to anywhere hoping 'not to get beat'... we should be going to every game with a plan of action on how to win.
You would like a team that has just been formed, that met each other a few days ago, that at least half of it played in the World Cup and has fitness hangovers, to go one of the most settled and organised team's home ground and try to do them 3-0?
Look at it this way.
Win all of our home games = 57 points.
Draw against the top 8 away = 8 points.
Lose the odd few = 0 points
Beat the bottom 6 = 18 points.
57 + 8 + 18 = 83 points.
Most years that wins us the league.
Well now we only need 7 points against the top 8 away.. :) 82 to go.
GStar
Well-Known Member
Damocles said:You would like a team that has just been formed, that met each other a few days ago, that at least half of it played in the World Cup and has fitness hangovers, to go one of the most settled and organised team's home ground and try to do them 3-0?
Look at it this way.
Win all of our home games = 57 points.
Draw against the top 8 away = 8 points.
Lose the odd few = 0 points
Beat the bottom 6 = 18 points.
57 + 8 + 18 = 83 points.
Most years that wins us the league.
If i meant that first bit, i would have said that ;)
But the excuses don't wash with me, international teams bring players from various clubs, playing various formations, with players playing out of position and create great football teams.
Brazil, Argentina, Holland, Spain etc
We're buying the best from the best international teams, they're fantastic talents that can adapt and play a number of given roles well. We're not at 100% yet, but any manager of a squad like ours that goes into a game "not to bet beat" isn't up to the job imo.
GStar said:zeven said:No at spurs away in our first game, with new. thats just sucide.
That's your opinion, i couldn't disagree more.
We should go into every match with a plan of how to win. These players are top quality, even with the time they need to fully adapt they can still produce against any opposition.
i am sure that was the plan to counter on the break and win the game but we cant all ways get what we want and getting a point and not conceding is the next best result is it not?
I also disagree that we have a better team than Chelsea, and it's madness to even suggest that we're anywhere near Barca's team. Player for player, they consistently both beat us.
Anyway, if we get to a level where we are as strong as these teams we can then start thinking about going to win at the Bridge, OT, Emirates or WHL. Until then though, we do it ugly. Success is the only thing that matters, not performances, not how we set out against certain teams. We are NOT Abramovich. Success is good enough, I don't care if it's ugly or not.
A draw at WHL is better than us, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal all did there last season. It's a bloody hard place to go and a point at this stage of the season is an excellent result
Anyway, if we get to a level where we are as strong as these teams we can then start thinking about going to win at the Bridge, OT, Emirates or WHL. Until then though, we do it ugly. Success is the only thing that matters, not performances, not how we set out against certain teams. We are NOT Abramovich. Success is good enough, I don't care if it's ugly or not.
A draw at WHL is better than us, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal all did there last season. It's a bloody hard place to go and a point at this stage of the season is an excellent result
Blue Sunshine
Member
- Joined
- 3 Aug 2010
- Messages
- 17
Damocles said:GStar said:Really?
The top teams don't adapt in any major way than perhaps a rotation here or there. They play to their strengths first, believeing that they will win the game based firstly, on that.
I wouldn't expect barca to adapt their philosophies, same way i wouldn't expect Chelsea to.
We have a team equal of the talent and ability to match any, we shouldn't be going to anywhere hoping 'not to get beat'... we should be going to every game with a plan of action on how to win.
You would like a team that has just been formed, that met each other a few days ago, that at least half of it played in the World Cup and has fitness hangovers, to go one of the most settled and organised team's home ground and try to do them 3-0?
So how do you explain last seasons home game against them? There's no excuse for what happened that night.
GStar
Well-Known Member
leewill31 said:GStar said:That's your opinion, i couldn't disagree more.
We should go into every match with a plan of how to win. These players are top quality, even with the time they need to fully adapt they can still produce against any opposition.
i am sure that was the plan to counter on the break and win the game but we cant all ways get what we want and getting a point and not conceding is the next best result is it not?
Haha, yep, a draw is the next best thing after a win.
But we played most of the match without a striker, we played the entire game without anyone making any central movement towards the box and we played a slow controlled build up which doesn't make me think we went to White Hart Lane and looked to counter.
GStar said:Damocles said:You would like a team that has just been formed, that met each other a few days ago, that at least half of it played in the World Cup and has fitness hangovers, to go one of the most settled and organised team's home ground and try to do them 3-0?
Look at it this way.
Win all of our home games = 57 points.
Draw against the top 8 away = 8 points.
Lose the odd few = 0 points
Beat the bottom 6 = 18 points.
57 + 8 + 18 = 83 points.
Most years that wins us the league.
If i meant that first bit, i would have said that ;)
But the excuses don't wash with me, international teams bring players from various clubs, playing various formations, with players playing out of position and create great football teams.
Errr..don't they actually play against teams that bring players from various clubs, playing various formations, with players playing out of position though? Hence it's a level playing field. You cannot compare the two, unless Spurs played three debutants yesterday that met two days ago.
GStar
Well-Known Member
Damocles said:I also disagree that we have a better team than Chelsea, and it's madness to even suggest that we're anywhere near Barca's team. Player for player, they consistently both beat us.
Anyway, if we get to a level where we are as strong as these teams we can then start thinking about going to win at the Bridge, OT, Emirates or WHL. Until then though, we do it ugly. Success is the only thing that matters, not performances, not how we set out against certain teams. We are NOT Abramovich. Success is good enough, I don't care if it's ugly or not.
A draw at WHL is better than us, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal all did there last season. It's a bloody hard place to go and a point at this stage of the season is an excellent result
Again at no point have i ever said we have a better team than either of those... as a squad we're up there in this division, and its quite possible to argue its one of the best.
We proved last season that not going into games looking to win, or looking to sneak a result didn't work... Arsenal were there for the taking, a pathetic 0-0. Liverpool home and away 2-2 and 0-0, Chelsea we went at them after being forced to and got the rub of the green with two wins. Utd we sat back and got beat.
I'm not bemoaning the point, i dont care about past results... look at each game on its own merits. Had we approached the game differently, perhaps we would have tested Spurs more. As it was we're all happy with a point because in all honesty we we're quite lucky to come away with a point.
GStar said:The top teams don't adapt in any major way than perhaps a rotation here or there. They play to their strengths first, believeing that they will win the game based firstly, on that.
If you've watched any sky 4 showdown you'd learn fairly quickly that isn't the case.
GStar said:zeven said:No at spurs away in our first game, with new. thats just sucide.
That's your opinion, i couldn't disagree more.
We should go into every match with a plan of how to win. These players are top quality, even with the time they need to fully adapt they can still produce against any opposition.
Thats how it works in most cases though tbh...Every manager no matter how good has to have a degree of damage limitation and know when to use it..
We dont want to be the Jimmy whites(snooker) of football....Theres a reason a player as good as him never won the world title.. he would try the risky shots too often,the crowd loved it and loved him for it but his opponents played the safety card..
we have to go for the snookers sometimes and yesterday it paid off.
GStar
Well-Known Member
Damocles said:Errr..don't they actually play against teams that bring players from various clubs, playing various formations, with players playing out of position though? Hence it's a level playing field. You cannot compare the two, unless Spurs played three debutants yesterday that met two days ago.
Err... of course i can compare the two. Forget the opposition and look at the teams set up, build up, passing, move ment etc.
malg
Well-Known Member
GStar said:But the excuses don't wash with me, international teams bring players from various clubs, playing various formations, with players playing out of position and create great football teams.
I would say that most international teams don't play creative or great football. Anyone who has watched the World Cups or European Championships would agree that most of the football is turgid. There are only a few exceptions. Our team needs to be given time.
GStar said:zeven said:No at spurs away in our first game, with new. thats just sucide.
That's your opinion, i couldn't disagree more.
We should go into every match with a plan of how to win. These players are top quality, even with the time they need to fully adapt they can still produce against any opposition.
you're right. should go into every game with a plan to win it.
but a plan can still fail.
and a plan can also be : defense 90 minutes and try to score on the counterattack.
this is also a plan, and has worked many many times in football's history.
GStar
Well-Known Member
moomba said:GStar said:The top teams don't adapt in any major way than perhaps a rotation here or there. They play to their strengths first, believeing that they will win the game based firstly, on that.
If you've watched any sky 4 showdown you'd learn fairly quickly that isn't the case.
You're right, i've never watched a football before, thanks for the input.
They play to thier strengths. I've never seen Utd drop Rooney to change to differnet formation when they go to the Bridge.
They play to their strengths and havedetailed plans of how to nullify the opposition.<br /><br />-- Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:56 pm --<br /><br />
Mancio said:GStar said:That's your opinion, i couldn't disagree more.
We should go into every match with a plan of how to win. These players are top quality, even with the time they need to fully adapt they can still produce against any opposition.
you're right. should go into every game with a plan to win it.
but a plan can still fail.
and a plan can also be : defense 90 minutes and try to score on the counterattack.
this is also a plan, and has worked many many times in football's history.
Correct.
However i never saw an attempt under Mancini yesterday to counter attack, from corners we usually brought all 11 back, sometimes 10. We palyed the ball quickly, but only across midfield, going forward we were much more controlled.
GStar said:leewill31 said:i am sure that was the plan to counter on the break and win the game but we cant all ways get what we want and getting a point and not conceding is the next best result is it not?
Haha, yep, a draw is the next best thing after a win.
But we played most of the match without a striker, we played the entire game without anyone making any central movement towards the box and we played a slow controlled build up which doesn't make me think we went to White Hart Lane and looked to counter.
as simple as it sounds in what i said that would of been drilled into the players more than anything!
GStar
Well-Known Member
leewill31 said:as simple as it sounds in what i said that would of been drilled into the players more than anything!
We didn't play counter attacking football at all yesterday, we kept possesion and tried to create a gap to exploit.