Transgender Sportswomen in Sport

[Blue&whitestripes]

That's commitment.

Just out of curiosity, how far do you have to go in order to be able to compete? I assume you can't just bang on a wig?

The rules for transgender participation vary between sports & between countries. Most, not all, sports adhere more-or-less to IOC rules (although those IOC rules are, IMO, a joke. Read the transcript of Dr. Emma Hilton's talk here https://fairplayforwomen.com/emma_hilton/) The IOC rules are considered to be the most stringent, whereas in college athletics in the States, self-identification is all that's required. In the USA, as I think we all know, sporting success can be a path to university & collage scholarships - quite a big deal.
Surgery is not required (it used to be a requirement of the IOC, no longer); length of hormone treatment varies between various sporting authorities; measured hormone levels vary. In any event, the final max hormone level for a transwoman athlete is significantly higher than any female will ever have - and that is without taking into account the physiological benefits conferred during male puberty.

 

[Blue&whitestripes]

This is an interesting one:


Iran does have a history of having high levels of transgender reassignment surgery (second only to Thailand, I believe) but it's still massively coincidental that 8 of their team claim to be transgender.

I

Iran has high levels of transgender reassignment surgery because it is illegal to be homosexual in Iran and is a capital offence.
"Some homosexual individuals in Iran have been pressured to undergo sex reassignment surgery in order to avoid legal and social persecution."

 

[bluemc1]

Why isn’t more done to help people who believe they are a different sex rather than just saying ok then mutilate yourself ? Then to let them compete against women, it’s just a joke and in this day of people shitting themselves in case they offend anyone it’s being allowed to happen

 

[danielwood5]

I posed a question around this subject in one of the women’s football threads over the summer, would a person born a man, now identifying as a woman be allowed to play in the woman’s game, where if they were even a distinctly average run of the mill league 1 journeyman they’d almost instantly become a messi of the woman’s game? If it was allowed, how quickly before it’s also abused? if the woman’s game grows to the point where their top stars are much better paid and have more fame than you’d get from playing in the 3/4th tier of the men’s game then how many would you get doing it for financial gains and fame

As far as I know the Olympic Federation says that someone has to have been on hormones for over a year as that is shown to pretty much negate the natural advantages/disadvantage that an athlete would have had. I don't know what the football authorities or amateur sports bodies rules are on this as its never really come up.
I think this is probably the problem with a lot of this debate, people seem to assume that transgender people are only going through this extreme life changing decision purely to cheat/gain advantage/become better sexual predators when it's actually a pretty obscure thing. When America was going through the whole bathroom debate (making people use the bathroom of the gender they were assigned at birth) it was pointed out that 0 transgender people had been accused of predatory actions in toilets but over 30 congressmen had!

 

[lazerblue]

I know what you’re saying but I think you’ve got your classification the wrong way round.

Transgender woman (someone born a man and now living as a woman) - such as in the OP where she competes against women.

Transgender man (the reverse of the above)

the bollock protector will give him away

 

[lazerblue]

for the life of me I just cannot understand why a bloke wants to be a woman !

to get a pay rise?

 

[Blue&whitestripes]

As far as I know the Olympic Federation says that someone has to have been on hormones for over a year as that is shown to pretty much negate the natural advantages/disadvantage that an athlete would have had. I don't know what the football authorities or amateur sports bodies rules are on this as its never really come up.
I think this is probably the problem with a lot of this debate, people seem to assume that transgender people are only going through this extreme life changing decision purely to cheat/gain advantage/become better sexual predators when it's actually a pretty obscure thing. When America was going through the whole bathroom debate (making people use the bathroom of the gender they were assigned at birth) it was pointed out that 0 transgender people had been accused of predatory actions in toilets but over 30 congressmen had!

Hormone treatment does not negate the physiological benefits resulting from a male, testosterone-fulled, puberty. See my previous replies in this thread and I suggest that anyone with an interest in this topic should read the transcript, or watch the video (it's only 20 mins) of Dr Emma Hilton's talk https://fairplayforwomen.com/emma_hilton/

The FA's policy on transgender athletes can be found here: http://www.thefa.com/-/media/files/...he-fa-policy-on-trans-people-in-football.ashx

(I'm not going to address your other point because that is not the topic of this thread and I don't want to derail it.)

 

[danielwood5]

Hormone treatment does not negate the physiological benefits resulting from a male, testosterone-fulled, puberty. See my previous replies in this thread and I suggest that anyone with an interest in this topic should read the transcript, or watch the video (it's only 20 mins) of Dr Emma Hilton's talk https://fairplayforwomen.com/emma_hilton/

The FA's policy on transgender athletes can be found here: http://www.thefa.com/-/media/files/...he-fa-policy-on-trans-people-in-football.ashx

(I'm not going to address your other point because that is not the topic of this thread and I don't want to derail it.)

This is one of those subjects that needs to be looked at in some detail and a scientific based set of fair play rules for each sport sorted out depending on what the physical demands in that particular field are.
It's not something that will be easy to come to a consensus around though as I don't know how it would be possible to decide how much of an advantage someone has makes it unfair on others. There are plenty of women who are taller and stronger than average so does this mean they have an unfair advantage? Is a transgender man who becomes a jockey at an advantage as they may be smaller and lighter than average? Does Messi needing hormone treatment for his growth deficiency give him an unfair advantage?
It will be difficult to do and for anyone to come to any kind of consensus because the bigots on both sides won't be happy with any outcome they don't like or support and it's generally the extremists that shout loudest in any discussion surrounding topics like this.
It would probably be best just to get rid of gender within sport and just have categories depending on ability levels, for example have separate athletic levels depending on how fast they run, height they can jump, etc. Kind of how the weight rankings work in boxing so then it's more of a level playing field for everyone regardless of gender, age, disability or whatever.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

As far as I know the Olympic Federation says that someone has to have been on hormones for over a year as that is shown to pretty much negate the natural advantages/disadvantage that an athlete would have had. I don't know what the football authorities or amateur sports bodies rules are on this as its never really come up.

That's the problem with the IOC having rules on it. The Olympics have such a wide range of sports that it's ridiculous to come up with one set of rules for all. What doesn't offer an advantage in one sport might offer an advantage in another.

But they should look at people who compete in both the male and female competitions and compare their performance. The principle should be that if they were the 100th best man in the world, then if they're any better than than in the women's competition, then that is evidence that they are being given an unfair advantage. Obviously that isn't always going to be the case, such as going from a professional and well-funded male division to an amateur female version of the sport, but the principle is correct, and is certainly true for a lot of the sports in the Olympics. If you're average as a man, then you shouldn't suddenly be a world beater in the women's competition.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Caster Semenya is an anagram of 'Yes a secret man'.