Trouble in the East Stand??

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

I had a good view from my nice padded seat opposite. Bloody ruffians standing up....

 

[PistonBlue]

Re: Peter Fletcher: Showsec Assaulting City Fans

its not law

Premier and Football Leagues. Rules 9 and 18 of the model regulations provide that:
•9. Nobody may stand in any seated area whilst play is in progress. Persistent standing in seated areas while play is in progress is strictly forbidden and may result in ejection from the ground.
•18. The club reserves absolutely the right to eject from the ground any person failing to comply with any of the ground regulations or whose presence within the ground is, or could reasonably be construed as, constituting a source of danger, nuisance or annoyance to any other person. This could lead to further action by the club including, but not limited to, the withdrawal of any season ticket (without reimbursement)and other benefits.
•18.1 Entry to the ground shall constitute acceptance of the ground regulations.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.fsf.org.uk/media/uploaded/Legalities-of-standing.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.fsf.org.uk/media/uploaded/Le ... anding.pdf</a>

THE LAW ON STANDING IN ALL-SEATED GROUNDS
- Ever since the introduction of all-seater stadia, many supporters have continued to stand in
front of their seats, often for the duration of the game.
- It is widely believed that this practice is illegal. This is not the case, even within Premier
League and Championship grounds. The law only provides that these clubs should provide
seats for all supporters, not that supporters must sit on them.
- The point is confirmed by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport: ‘At no point has it
been argued that the individual spectator commits a criminal offence by standing in a seated
area’ (Source: Letter to Football Supporters Federation, 2008)

i think you will find what you quoted are FA guidelines, not legalities

So, it wouldn't stand up in a court of law (no pun intended), but all Premier League clubs have a duty to follow FA guidelines surely? Effectively meaning that you are not allowed to stand at a football match, even though we all know it goes on. MCFC have to be seen to be tackling the problem.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Re: Re: Peter Fletcher: Showsec Assaulting City Fans

i think you will find what you quoted are FA guidelines, not legalities

Quite right. They are model regulations that it is suggested licensing bodies adopt. If Manchester City Council are told by the club that it is more dangerous to try to enforce sitting in 109 than to allow standing then the council can choose to ignore the model regulations.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Re: Re: Trouble in the East Stand??

I sit in 209 so has a pretty good view and for stewards to be throwing punches no matter what the provication is fucking wrong. One in particular (Think he had shaved head at the sides) threw at least three punches when I was watching. Hope the twat loses his job!!!

That sounds like the guy arrested.

 

[jrb]

The standing law is a joke. Thousands of football fans are standing at most football grounds every week.

It can't be enforced.

Sretford next week will be the same. City will satnd, so will the Rags in the Stretford End and K-Stand.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

think next home game the entire ground should stand, am sick to death of these heavy handed stewards

Yeah, what about a 'whole ground stand' on sixty minutes during the RRealVilla match. (And if Balo scores an overhead from the halfway line on sixty an' we stand anyway, we go for seventy. Ok, we gonna win 9-0 and someone scores at ten minute intervals. Right, 37th minute an' if a shot is on, aim for the corner flag.)

 

[GXCity]

Something needs to be done before someone dies. I keep hearing about this stewards stuff in Britain, totally baffling because there's nothing like it over here in the US.

This is in no way derogatory but if you were not there you do not know pal. Our stadia are completely different from yours and you will never understand. Trust me on this one mate

 

[shadygiz]

THE LAW ON STANDING IN ALL-SEATED GROUNDS
- Ever since the introduction of all-seater stadia, many supporters have continued to stand in front of their seats, often for the duration of the game.
- It is widely believed that this practice is illegal. This is not the case, even within Premier League and Championship grounds. The law only provides that these clubs should provide seats for all supporters, not that supporters must sit on them.
- The point is confirmed by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport: ‘At no point has it been argued that the individual spectator commits a criminal offence by standing in a seated area’ (Source: Letter to Football Supporters Federation, 2008)

- Standing in seated areas, is, however, contrary to ground regulations. For example, the Football League’s model set of ground regulations states: ‘Nobody may stand in any seating area whilst play is in progress. Persistent standing in seated areas whilst play is in progress is strictly forbidden and may result in ejection from the ground’.
- It is notable that the two rules are contradictory, the first bars all ‘standing’, the second only ‘persistent standing’. In practice, standing to go to the toilet or snack bar and standing at ‘moments of excitement’ is permitted. The boundary between ‘moments of excitement’ and ‘persistent’ is rather grey and open to very wide interpretation.


CRIMINAL AND CIVIL LAW
- There are two types of law, criminal law and civil law.
- Criminal laws are offences against the state (‘illegal acts’), such as smoking in public places.
Police may become involved with enforcing criminal laws.
- Civil laws are contracts between two parties, such as agreements to purchase home insurance.
- The ground regulations of a club (including the ban on persistent standing) form a contract between the supporter and the club.
- By standing, the supporter is in breach of that contract. This is a civil, not a criminal matter.
- Therefore, a supporter cannot be arrested simply for standing. For that reason, it is not a matter that the police should be involved in, unless (for example) a supporter assaults a steward asking to get people to sit down; that would be a criminal offence.

 

[GazC]

As has already been pointed out, it's only illegal to stand at a game if you're blocking an aisle or access point. What next, before kick off Fletcher and Show-Sec do a sweep of the ground and strap everybody into their seats to prevent any kind of standing?

Ultimately City have themselves to blame for this mess as:

i) The ticket office advertised 109 as being a standing block in the season card relocation window.

ii) The now infamous Fletcher letter was sent only after everybody had either renewed or purchased their season card in this area.

iii) Employing a 3rd party company with a dubious reputation for crowd control to police our own fans.

iv) The approach the club takes to ejecting fans during the game, the current course of action taken by the ShowSec under the club's direction is going to result in somebody becoming seriously injured or possibly worse. If the club took no action no incident would take place.

At the end of the day, has has already been proven by canvassing opinion from those that occupy 109, the people here don't want to sit; we just want to support our team as voraciously as we can within the boundaries of the law and enjoy the experience. This isn't happening at the moment, and, considering we've had the best start to a season in my life time I'm no longer enjoying home games as a result of the stewards' actions.

 

[hilts]

Re: Peter Fletcher: Showsec Assaulting City Fans

Fletcher will just say they are doing their job as it's against the law for you stand at a football match. They will argue that those who stand have caused the ruck because if they obeyed the law none of it would have happened.

I'm not siding with them I'm just telling you how they'll see it.

-- Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:05 pm --



No it isn't. It's a block full of law breakers, technically.

try reading the post, everyone in 109 stands in REALITY it is a standing block you can call it what you want but if a block is standing it is a standing block whether right or wrong, is this clear for you

-- Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:12 pm --

The hate for Peter Fletcher on this forum is a joke.

I hope he reads this and serves us all a dose by forcing the entire ground to sit. Rather than allowing two specific sections to break FA rules.

Then perhaps you'll all realise the fuckwittery in these kind of threads.

(that's not addressing individual behaviour of stewards, if what is alleged to have happened its unacceptable and I expect he'll pay with his job)

and how is going to do that?

By closing 109.
Can see it coming, for Health and Safety reasons, City can not allow people to stand, if the council threaten us with closing sections of the ground, as the Scum got threatened with a few years back, City will have no option.

I am not saying I agree, but standing is not allowed in top flight football, like it or not. The club have turned a blind eye to a few blocks, but can not allow it to spread. The actions of the stewards can not be defended tho.

well shadygiz's post pisses on the arguement that people in 109 are breaking the law, you have to stop standing as it starts to happen not once it widespread

legally the council wouldnt have a leg to stand on, you also cant eject or ban a whole block

this isnt a health and safety issue at all, it started from fans themselves in 109 complaing that they couldnt see the game because others are standing, its too late now fletcher/city need to realise this