Truck Runs into Crowd in Nice

[Saddleworth2]

Atrocities such as this make you want to pull up the drawbridge and keep the rest of the world out. If we do, we turn our back on atrocities that continue to happen and are fueling the most significant migration into Europe in generations that we have seen over the last couple of years. Frontex, the organisation that is responsible for EU external borders estimates 1.8m people crossed illegally into EU in 2015, primarily from Syria, Iraq, Kosovo. An estimated 400,000 have already died in the Syrian civil war, 4,000 have been drowned in the med trying to cross into EU. The EU has singularly failed to deal with the mass migration of millions of people into its borders. The allocation of people has been haphazard at best and God only knows what problems this will bring in the next couple of years with integration and further radicalisation. I think history will judge that this has been a human catastrophe on a massive scale.

Instability in the Middle East and Islamic terrorism needs to be confronted. It is a global problem, but how to do that? U.K. Alone won't, EU has shown its cant. I really don't know what the UN have done/are doing but NATO could only become involved under their direction. Pour on top of that, we are a few months away from possibly the most dangerous right wing lunatic in charge of the nuclear button in the US. So for those that are advocating direct action against ISIS what do they mean and how would they see it played out in the global environment I've described?

 

[inbetween]

No.
This is terrorism and must be named and treated as such. It is Islamic terrorism with the express aim of imposing Islamic law across the globe creating a new califate.
To pretend otherwise is to turn your eyes away from the truth.

The solution is to submit or resist. Resisting will eventually require more direct action than most western populations are willing to support but as more attacks happen that will change.

The sooner the better in my opinion.

I of course agree but what direct action do you propose. This was instigated by a single person (so far we know) who was already known to the authorities. I would rather blame the intelligence services and their failings then a lack of bombing in foreign countries killing potentially hundreds of innocent people just the same as last night. The only argument for intervention is with boots on the ground but that would have zero chance of success when there is a war going on in Syria involving so many different groups.

There is a reason this is happening in France and not here or anywhere else and it is because we have very different methods of handling intelligence to the rest of Europe. Had this happened here you would bet that we would have aircraft in the skies with all manners of listening devices etc and units would be setup to monitor and track people on watch lists. This clearly does not happen enough in France and they have not learnt from Paris because otherwise they would have resources monitoring this man. Obviously there are some things though you just cannot do anything about and I think this is one of them.

If anything the most direct action we can take is to increase surveillance across the board, especially on the internet because if a man in France is becoming associated with ISIS in Syria or similar, there is only one way he is doing it. Many today will come on here and attack the EU for what has happened but this shows that there has never been a more important time to stick together and work together across borders to stop these things happening before they do.

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

People who say we need to give up more security in this thread are crazy as hell

I don't think they realise how much data the relevant security forces have, (NSA and the like) it's not about how much info they have, but how they put it to use to stop these awful events happening

 

[Saddleworth2]

I of course agree but what direct action do you propose. This was instigated by a single person (so far we know) who was already known to the authorities. I would rather blame the intelligence services and their failings then a lack of bombing in foreign countries killing potentially hundreds of innocent people just the same as last night. The only argument for intervention is with boots on the ground but that would have zero chance of success when there is a war going on in Syria involving so many different groups.

There is a reason this is happening in France and not here or anywhere else and it is because we have very different methods of handling intelligence to the rest of Europe. Had this happened here you would bet that we would have aircraft in the skies with all manners of listening devices etc and units would be setup to monitor and track people on watch lists. This clearly does not happen enough in France and they have not learnt from Paris because otherwise they would have resources monitoring this man. Obviously there are some things though you just cannot do anything about and I think this is one of them.

If anything the most direct action we can take is to increase surveillance across the board, especially on the internet because if a man in France is becoming associated with ISIS in Syria or similar, there is only one way he is doing it. Many today will come on here and attack the EU for what has happened but this shows that there has never been a more important time to stick together and work together across borders to stop these things happening before they do.

I agree, at a time when the Uk could have played a very meaningful leadership role in Europe, we have appointed Boris as Foreign Secretary. If it wasn't so seriously tragic you might laugh. Intellegence services should be continuing to work across borders so I do wonder how effective that is given the repeat nature of attacks in France.

 

[bluemoon32]

Awful awful news but unfortunately there is nothing anyone can do to stop these types of attacks, we're somehow just going to have to find a way to live with these incidents.

 

[mrtwiceaseason]

Trying to take the positives out of this if the truck was full of granades and weapons thankfully they didn't get used or it could have been even worse.

 

[law74]

The murderer was known to the police but not linked to terrorist cells according to the BBC this morning. That could mean almost anything.
The reason we haven't been "hit" recently imho is much to do with the Muslim communities in the UK not having as many radicalized people and people passing information on to the authorities that enables effective monitoring.
I was in Nice for our match against Poland and stayed on the Riviera for 9 night's and the locals were superb, & the police while in force, good natured and looked highly organised.
You do not defeat terrorism by giving up your civil liberties.

 

[inbetween]

Atrocities such as this make you want to pull up the drawbridge and keep the rest of the world out. If we do, we turn our back on atrocities that continue to happen and are fueling the most significant migration into Europe in generations that we have seen over the last couple of years. Frontex, the organisation that is responsible for EU external borders estimates 1.8m people crossed illegally into EU in 2015, primarily from Syria, Iraq, Kosovo. An estimated 400,000 have already died in the Syrian civil war, 4,000 have been drowned in the med trying to cross into EU. The EU has singularly failed to deal with the mass migration of millions of people into its borders. The allocation of people has been haphazard at best and God only knows what problems this will bring in the next couple of years with integration and further radicalisation. I think history will judge that this has been a human catastrophe on a massive scale.

Instability in the Middle East and Islamic terrorism needs to be confronted. It is a global problem, but how to do that? U.K. Alone won't, EU has shown its cant. I really don't know what the UN have done/are doing but NATO could only become involved under their direction. Pour on top of that, we are a few months away from possibly the most dangerous right wing lunatic in charge of the nuclear button in the US. So for those that are advocating direct action against ISIS what do they mean and how would they see it played out in the global environment I've described?

Do the maths though on what you have just said, say there are 2 million migrants in Europe, the actions of the 15 or so total people involved in the attacks in the last year in Paris, Belgium and Nice amounts to about 0.00075% of that number. Even if 0.1% of migrants were terrorists we would be in serious and I mean serious trouble. I seriously doubt there are even 100 actual terrorists planning attacks in Europe and that is generous.

I hope you understand that the other 99.99925% of migrants are actually fleeing the very people who are committing these attacks. What would we blame on the 100 people blown up in Iraq?

This has nothing to do with migration but a war against a poisoned idelogy held by an almost infinitely small group of people who do not even relate to the rest of humanity.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Do the maths though on what you have just said, say there are 2 million migrants in Europe, the actions of the 15 or so total people involved in the attacks in the last year in Paris, Belgium and Nice amounts to about 0.00075% of that number. Even if 0.1% of migrants were terrorists we would be in serious and I mean serious trouble. I seriously doubt there are even 100 actual terrorists planning attacks in Europe and that is generous.

I hope you understand that the other 99.99925% of migrants are actually fleeing the very people who are committing these attacks. What would we blame on the 100 people blown up in Iraq?

This has nothing to do with migration but a war against a poisoned idelogy held by an almost infinitely small group of people who do not even relate to the rest of humanity.

I understand it perfectly mate. At a time when we should have been at the heart of Europe leading the management of a crisis that has millions of innocent men, women and children being herded round Europe, sleeping on streets and being vilified for having the temerity of fleeing a war in their homeland not of their creation, we vote to exit EU and appoint Boris fucking Johnson as our voice to the rest of the world. I can't put into words how tragic this whole shambles is.

 

[Super David Silva 21]

I really do run out of things to say, wish we could just wipe out these evil bastards.

Sadly though nothing like this really shocks me anymore, it's a case of not again.