Truck Runs into Crowd in Nice

[stony]

I was just going to reply to that clip that Mark posted but happily it's been removed. Not sure who the gobby racist twat was but we don't need that sort of shit on here.

 

[bluesteel]

Thanks mods for deleting that video, not only is that guy and idiot, he's dangerous.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

The way I see it is that we are the baddies in all this. Is 1 western life worth 100 Islamic lives? a thousand Islamic lives? We are slaughtering these people daily, we are each paying taxes for the RAF to bomb these countries and innocent people generally die with every strike, we voted, collectively, our government in power and this is the action of our government, and hence us, by proxy.

You can choose to believe in our media, our government, in that what we are doing is the humanitarian thing to do, you can choose to believe in Putin, who has recently questioned who has armed the rebels in Syria and ISIS for that matter because is wasn't the Russians. The Russians are protecting their ally, Assad, the USA and us want him dispossessed. So now we're involved, illegally again. Killing innocent people every day, again.

People think this is all religion, I think it is to a certain degree, but more political. Do you think governments that have sent literally millions of innocent people to war and death, care about 84 lives? There was a guy who posted earlier saying he carried on watching the golf, I bet they give less of a shit than that. Does anyone seriously think we are intervening in these countries for any other reason than control? We are trying to force western democracy on a sovereign states. (there was a time when we were fighting communism) To tell them they are forbidden from doing what we do by protecting themselves with nuclear weapons? When the only country who has dropped two in anger is that very same country who is leading all this? (ok atomic).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not apologising for these cunts, and the trigger man isn't usually the issue as has been discussed, and yes they are usually vulnerable, but not always. Was Osama vulnerable, born into a family worth billions (literally)? He fought the Soviets, in Afghanistan, funded by the USA, whilst they were fucking around fighting the USSR by proxy long before they moved their attention to where we are now.

This is about power and control for western governments, nothing more. We want to sit here watching shit about Kim Kardashians arse whilst our media fail to report on how many children we've accidently killed that day, or we ignore it whilst we spend the weekend with our loved ones, post our faux tears and French flags on Facebook as if it's the only atrocity committed that day.

But none of this matters, it doesn't matter because the nobody who matters wants a solution, the west want control, and the middle east want an Islamic State without Israel. There is nobody to sit around a table with, there is nobody who is going to back out.

We can sit here and talk about border control, about immigration, but it's not even relevant. Wake up and see the bigger picture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_Wars

Watch that.

Read this.

https://www.quora.com/To-what-extent-is-Al-Qaeda-a-creation-of-the-CIA

If we were trying to overthrow our own government, and the Chinese were drone striking us, I'd hate them too.

It's clearly not just as black and white as what I've just typed, and there will be people that might disagree on bits, and that's fine, this is just how I feel.

But these are not our wars, these are civil wars, if we want to get involved then that's up to our governments to decide, but yesterday was just another consequence. I remember the demonstrations about going to war in Iraq, I was fuming when Cameron decided to get involved in Syria, we need to make our voices heard or accept what is coming.

And last night, again, was heart-breaking, as will be the next one.

But the guy was Tunisian . He did not live in Syria or Iraq.

Weren't the Paris killers Belgian.

The Orlando killer was American?

The London bombers were from yorkshire?

If any of these people had been bombed by the nasty west and angered because their families had suffered then may be the point you make I can understand ( but not sympathise with). None of these twats felt the nasty force of the west so I am not sure of your point? These are all western citizens attacking western civilians . Your China analogy is nonsense.

 

[Machiavelli]

Walid Hamou, a cousin of Bouhlel's wife Hajer Khalfallah , told MailOnline: 'Bouhlel was not religious. He did not go to the mosque, he did not pray, he did not observe Ramadan.'He drank alcohol, ate pork and took drugs. This is all forbidden under Islam. He was not a Muslim, he was a s***". He beat his wife, my cousin, he was a nasty piece of work"

He sounds really devout. Similar to the shooter at the gay club in the USA - only he could add homosexuality to the list of things that devout Muslims and their writings deem forbidden.
If the above is true, this guy cannot be a Muslim in the purest sense, he's a cultural Muslim (like many religious people from all faiths who cherry pick which parts they observe) as opposed to one who follows and complies with Islamic doctrine.

 

[sir baconface]

The way I see it is that we are the baddies in all this. Is 1 western life worth 100 Islamic lives? a thousand Islamic lives? We are slaughtering these people daily, we are each paying taxes for the RAF to bomb these countries and innocent people generally die with every strike, we voted, collectively, our government in power and this is the action of our government, and hence us, by proxy.

You can choose to believe in our media, our government, in that what we are doing is the humanitarian thing to do, you can choose to believe in Putin, who has recently questioned who has armed the rebels in Syria and ISIS for that matter because is wasn't the Russians. The Russians are protecting their ally, Assad, the USA and us want him dispossessed. So now we're involved, illegally again. Killing innocent people every day, again.

People think this is all religion, I think it is to a certain degree, but more political. Do you think governments that have sent literally millions of innocent people to war and death, care about 84 lives? There was a guy who posted earlier saying he carried on watching the golf, I bet they give less of a shit than that. Does anyone seriously think we are intervening in these countries for any other reason than control? We are trying to force western democracy on a sovereign states. (there was a time when we were fighting communism) To tell them they are forbidden from doing what we do by protecting themselves with nuclear weapons? When the only country who has dropped two in anger is that very same country who is leading all this? (ok atomic).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not apologising for these cunts, and the trigger man isn't usually the issue as has been discussed, and yes they are usually vulnerable, but not always. Was Osama vulnerable, born into a family worth billions (literally)? He fought the Soviets, in Afghanistan, funded by the USA, whilst they were fucking around fighting the USSR by proxy long before they moved their attention to where we are now.

This is about power and control for western governments, nothing more. We want to sit here watching shit about Kim Kardashians arse whilst our media fail to report on how many children we've accidently killed that day, or we ignore it whilst we spend the weekend with our loved ones, post our faux tears and French flags on Facebook as if it's the only atrocity committed that day.

But none of this matters, it doesn't matter because the nobody who matters wants a solution, the west want control, and the middle east want an Islamic State without Israel. There is nobody to sit around a table with, there is nobody who is going to back out.

We can sit here and talk about border control, about immigration, but it's not even relevant. Wake up and see the bigger picture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_Wars

Watch that.

Read this.

https://www.quora.com/To-what-extent-is-Al-Qaeda-a-creation-of-the-CIA

If we were trying to overthrow our own government, and the Chinese were drone striking us, I'd hate them too.

It's clearly not just as black and white as what I've just typed, and there will be people that might disagree on bits, and that's fine, this is just how I feel.

But these are not our wars, these are civil wars, if we want to get involved then that's up to our governments to decide, but yesterday was just another consequence. I remember the demonstrations about going to war in Iraq, I was fuming when Cameron decided to get involved in Syria, we need to make our voices heard or accept what is coming.

And last night, again, was heart-breaking, as will be the next one.

Great post. Much as I hate these cnuts and their foul creed, how would we feel if we saw hundreds of lives lost to collateral damage every week, committed by faraway countries with alien civilisations? We have a vicious circle that will be extremely hard to break but somehow needs a re-think.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Great post. Much as I hate these cnuts and their foul creed, how would we feel if we saw hundreds of lives lost to collateral damage every week, committed by faraway countries with alien civilisations? We have a vicious circle that will be extremely hard to break but somehow needs a re-think.

But he was born in Tunisia and grew up in France so saw none of that.....

 

[sir baconface]

But he was born in Tunisia and grew up in France so saw none of that.....

Are you serious? You actually have to be an eye witness for anything to affect you? In that case all the myriad expressions of sympathy about events in France are meaningless.

In any event, I'm not talking about one solitary incident.

Please think again about what you have just said.

 

[Machiavelli]

But the guy was Tunisian . He did not live in Syria or Iraq.

Weren't the Paris killers Belgian.

The Orlando killer was American?

The London bombers were from yorkshire?

If any of these people had been bombed by the nasty west and angered because their families had suffered then may be the point you make I can understand ( but not sympathise with). None of these twats felt the nasty force of the west so I am not sure of your point? These are all western citizens attacking western civilians . Your China analogy is nonsense.

Weren't the Paris victims French?
Weren't the Orlando victims American?
Weren't the 7/7 victims Londoners? So why do we care? The reason is we all identify with others all across the world and we see attacks like this against the West and our way of life, so it isn't surprising Muslims from here, or Belgium or France identify with Muslims around the world and the perceived treatment of "their" people and their way of life. It cuts both ways I'm afraid. And they may well have family in some of the countries where we've seen military action against the Muslims or in this case a Muslim who drank, gambled, took drugs and ate pork!

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Are you serious? You actually have to be an eye witness for anything to affect you? In that case all the myriad expressions of sympathy about events in France are meaningless.

I didn't witness the Holocaust but it deeply affected me as about 250 members of my family lost their lives. But I don't go round murdering Germans.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Are you serious? You actually have to be an eye witness for anything to affect you? In that case all the myriad expressions of sympathy about events in France are meaningless.

In any event, I'm not talking about one solitary incident.

Please think again about what you have just said.

Well may be I should start bombing German citizens for their actions in the war because my family was affected. Or attack any innocent people around the world because I watch tv and see horrible things. Is that ok?

Stop saying imagine if you were seeing , fleeing western bombings? Or if we were being attacked by China how would we feel. Pretty bloody bad and I would want to do something BUT These terrorists were born and raised in the west.

 

[Blue Haze]

We are bombing the Middle East to prevent Islamist fuckheads like ISIS from taking over. Do people really think we spent billions the last 15 years setting up global security operations to get our fun from bombing innocent men and women?

We are bombing them in response to their aggressive acts toward us and other innocent people around the world. If we stop bombing the monsters who coordinate these attacks, and those who fund ISIS operations, they will have free rein to operate with impunity.

 

[Machiavelli]

We are bombing the Middle East to prevent Islamist fuckheads like ISIS from taking over. Do people really think we spent billions the last 15 years setting up global security operations to get our fun from bombing innocent men and women?

We are bombing them in response to their aggressive acts toward us and other innocent people around the world. If we stop bombing the monsters who coordinate these attacks, and those who fund ISIS operations, they will have free rein to operate with impunity.

 

[Blue Haze]

Yes, because bombing prominent terrorists is something only a crazy American would want to do.

Your solution is what? To stop bombing a genocidal religious cult to see if maybe, just maybe they will be appeased. Weak and useless, just like the leftist governments that are falling all over Europe. How's Labour doing, by the way? You find a leader yet? What happened to those Liberal Democrats anyway? Don't hear much from them these days.

 

[BigOscar]

I didn't witness the Holocaust but it deeply affected me as about 250 members of my family lost their lives. But I don't go round murdering Germans.

To be fair, that's not exactly the same given that the Nazi's lost and are no longer a target. If the Nazi's were still in power and going around like they'd done nothing wrong then you might be a bit more inclined to go round murdering them. (not that I'm condoning it or saying you would, more just pointing out the difference from their perspective)

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

To be fair, that's not exactly the same given that the Nazi's lost and are no longer a target. If the Nazi's were still in power and going around like they'd done nothing wrong then you might be a bit more inclined to go round murdering them. (not that I'm condoning it or saying you would, more just pointing out the difference from their perspective)

Well let's put it another way. We bombed the fuck out of Germany from 1942 to 1945 massacring tens of thousands of civilians yet they don't seem to hold it against us.

And it seems that this guy was just a bit of a disaffected nutter who happened to have been born a Muslim, similar to the loner weirdos in the USA who shoot loads of people and happen to have been born a Christian.

 

[FanchesterCity]

I very much doubt that many of the Islamic extremists have attempted peaceful negotiations and this is their last resort.
It seems far more likely this is their first and only resort.

I am sure that many nations have made some grave mistakes on foreign policy decisions, particularly (but not limited to) the Middle East - but Jihadists aren't saying 'please leave our country' they are saying 'you are infidels and should adopt our way of life or die'. They aren't holding up a banner to say 'leave us alone and we'll leave you alone', they fundamentally oppose our way of life, and we fundamentally oppose theirs.

For 99.99% of the rest of the world, we have differences, some of them fundamental, but we can live together - just. We don't want to kill.

An Islamic Jihadist is no different to a member of the KKK or extreme end of the Nazis (as loathsome as Nazis were, some were not in favour of extermination). They are extremists, and in this case of an Islamic bent. But they are extremists first and foremost. Extreme in view and in behaviour.

There's an argument to say they exist to find some cause, not because they have a cause. i.e. If it wasn't Islam, they'd be fighting for some other radical cause.

 

[FanchesterCity]

If there were no Black people in the USA, do you think the members of the KKK would just go about their lives normally? - I don't. I think they'd have found something else to hate.

 

[Machiavelli]

Yes, because bombing prominent terrorists is something only a crazy American would want to do.

Your solution is what? To stop bombing a genocidal religious cult to see if maybe, just maybe they will be appeased. Weak and useless, just like the leftist governments that are falling all over Europe. How's Labour doing, by the way? You find a leader yet? What happened to those Liberal Democrats anyway? Don't hear much from them these days.

No appeasement here, or bloodlust. Team America don't seem to have made the world a safer place with their bombs and foreign policy, it just lines the pockets of America's masters.
"Labour?" "You find a leader yet?" Ha bless, you think I vote Labour?
I'd guess you probably don't here much from them (Labour) these days because you're a yank thousands of miles away.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I very much doubt that many of the Islamic extremists have attempted peaceful negotiations and this is their last resort.
It seems far more likely this is their first and only resort.

I am sure that many nations have made some grave mistakes on foreign policy decisions, particularly (but not limited to) the Middle East - but Jihadists aren't saying 'please leave our country' they are saying 'you are infidels and should adopt our way of life or die'. They aren't holding up a banner to say 'leave us alone and we'll leave you alone', they fundamentally oppose our way of life, and we fundamentally oppose theirs.

For 99.99% of the rest of the world, we have differences, some of them fundamental, but we can live together - just. We don't want to kill.

An Islamic Jihadist is no different to a member of the KKK or extreme end of the Nazis (as loathsome as Nazis were, some were not in favour of extermination). They are extremists, and in this case of an Islamic bent. But they are extremists first and foremost. Extreme in view and in behaviour.

There's an argument to say they exist to find some cause, not because they have a cause. i.e. If it wasn't Islam, they'd be fighting for some other radical cause.

Excellent post. If Thatcher had banned football in the 1980's, the young, working-class lads who were football hooligans would have found something else to fight about.

 

[Blue Haze]

No appeasement here, or bloodlust. Team America don't seem to have made the world a safer place with their bombs and foreign policy, it just lines the pockets of America's masters.

Before ISIS I would have been saying the same thing. The Taliban seemed an anomaly to me. It wasn't until ISIS that it became obvious to me that without western intervention, much of the Islamic world would be ruled by something like ISIS. If not the Taliban or ISIS, it would be Muslim Brotherhood, Boko Haram or Al Shabaab.

There are apparently far worse things than western interventionists. In this case, due to the death toll and widespread human suffering, western intervention is completely justified. I 100% support the west in taking out terrorist training camps, funding centers, recruiters, and mosques that are used as bases. Even if those strikes risk innocent people. The Israelis turned out to be right all along.