Turkey

[blueparrot]

Behave yourself Blueparrot.
Isis are sunni Muslims that want to spread wahabism. Pakistan and Turkey are sunni Muslim countries. It stands to reason that they'd feel more sympathy towards people who believe that women are second class citizens, homosexuality should be punished etc.
We're "friends" with them simply to keep a lid on things.
Given the choice of you meeting some nice people and the evidence of the whole ground at a football match booing the French national anthem after the terror attacks in France and subsequently castigating a turkish player for saying it's wrong, I know which one I'd use as a barometer of opinion.

I'm judging people, that I have met and worked with, not how their football fans behave, or else I'd be writing off anybody English as well. To accuse a whole country of muslims as being the same as isis, is as I said stupid. Just as I don't accuse all Irish people of being terrorists.

 

[Len Rum]

Phase 1 : Give the Muslim looney s their own lands Israel will do, fuck the welsh off, give Wales to Israel send the Welsh to southern Ireland send the southern Irish to northern irelaid ,bomb the fuck out of the new Muslim land and southern Ireland that will be the Welsh and Muslims sorted, then round up the gingers and the uglys send them to Israel blow the fuck out of them

Phase 2 : cut jock land adrift huge fucking saw when it's near enough to Iceland nuke it that should sort out the jocks and those slow clapping fuckers
Phase 3 : have a break
Phase 4: have a good ethnic cleansing in England
Phase 5 : go for southern Ireland blow that out of the water ,invade northern Ireland
Vote for peace vote for peace frog

His 'ead's gone.

 

[2sheikhs]

I'd never accuse all the irish of being in the ira. It's about sympathies and beliefs. Look at the way they were treated by us with the black and tans. Of course it causes resentment and forms opinions.
We're interfering in countries for political and financial gain. The majority of citizens in sunni Muslim countries are uneasy about being seen as on the same side as non Muslim countries attacking and killing sunni Muslims.
Can you blame them?

 

[blueparrot]

But This

majority of the population have more in common with isis than any of our values, culture and beliefs.

Isn't the same as this

The majority of citizens in sunni Muslim countries are uneasy about being seen as on the same side as non Muslim countries attacking and killing sunni Muslims.

 

[FanchesterCity]

You have to be VERY careful about the 'more in common with' statement.

I might enjoy a beer and football and rock music and share some of those fundamental pleasures (to me) with my neighbour, but if he turns out to be a serial killer, or some far right extremist, what good are those commonalities? Should I side with him because of those shared views on other subjects?

And then there's the teetotaller, sport hating, classical music fan who isn't a serial killer.

Which is the one I can co-exist with? I suspect the latter.


Of course Muslims share a hugely important belief in their religion, not to mention regional and lifestyle similarities, and in that sense they have more 'in common' with ISIS - but if there's one fundamental difference of opinion about murdering innocent people, then it can trump everything else - to the point where we (non Muslims) are a better neighbour than ISIS.

 

[2sheikhs]

So what does the Koran say about homosexuality, women's rights, blasphemy etc?
Isis are carrying out their deeds to the letter of the law from thousands of years ago. It's extreme, yet still closer to the beliefs of sunni Muslims in Turkey than the West's stance on freedom of speech, liberty and equality.
Whenever countries get too westernised, a hardline cleric will step in.

 

[FanchesterCity]

So what does the Koran say about homosexuality, women's rights, blasphemy etc?
Isis are carrying out their deeds to the letter of the law from thousands of years ago. It's extreme, yet still closer to the beliefs of sunni Muslims in Turkey than the West's stance on freedom of speech, liberty and equality.
Whenever countries get too westernised, a hardline cleric will step in.

They choose to adopt the letter of the law as it best suits them. An extremist Christian could do the same by selectively choosing some Old Testament examples and denouncing homosexuality or women's authority in the church etc. Plenty of other Muslims choose to interpret the Koran less literally or approach it with a broader sense, contrasting the punishments with forgiveness and understanding too.
Extremists are choosing extreme interpretations and extremely selective aspects of the Koran to justify their actions. Most of Islam disagrees with them.

You can't say 'it's close to your belief' if one person thinks stoning someone to death is right, and another thinks it's wrong just because they agree on 100 other things in the religion.
You can say they agree on more than they differ, but if that one fundamental disagreement is so huge, it trumps everything.

I probably share more commonality with Hitler and Pater Sutcliffe than I do with the Dalai Lama, but I'd still rather live next door to the Dalai Lama.

I do agree that some hardline cleric will speak out. They always do. We have our version of them here too, albeit in the guise of politicians or leaders of some far right organisation. Farage and NIck Griffin have been two such examples.

 

[Corky]

So what does the Koran say about homosexuality, women's rights, blasphemy etc?
Isis are carrying out their deeds to the letter of the law from thousands of years ago. It's extreme, yet still closer to the beliefs of sunni Muslims in Turkey than the West's stance on freedom of speech, liberty and equality.
Whenever countries get too westernised, a hardline cleric will step in.

That is like making out England is full of Quakers as a Christian country.

 

[Millennium]

The crusaders responded to islamist forces occupying what had, up until then, been Christian countries, islam came 600 odd years later.
and who follow their faith,
perverted yes, but this perversion of that faith has disturbingly large support, these people are numbered in thousands.

First, your knowledge about the crusaders is not correct, the Crusades wars took place between the 11th and 15th centuries, so it started 500 years after the emerging of Islam, and therefore, all the cities attacked were Muslim Cities with minorities from all other religious living in peace with the majority of Muslims. They mercilessly massacred Muslim peasants and burned their young children alive; they have directed their violence towards any dark-skinned peoples and those who simply wore different clothes from them, regardless of their religions. They have slaughtered around 10,000 Jews who they were defending their temple in Jerusalem.
Second: Ottoman Empire occupied the Arab world, and then, the British promised that if the Arab support the British against the Othman Empire, they will help the Arabs to establish their national Arab homeland. But as always the case, the Britsh along with France and Russian secretly have agreed through Sykes–Picot Agreement to occupy and control the Arab world.Typical Western attitudes, betraying, treachery and selfish. The never care about others, the only thing they care about is their interests
Third: Those whom you call jihadist have killed more Muslims, and they consider all Muslims (more than 1.6 billion) as Nun-Muslims and they have conducted many attacked in the mosques while Muslims were praying without any mercy. Regardless of their believe or interpretation to Islam, they are not Muslims and do not belong to Islam by their acts.

 

[Big-P]

First, your knowledge about the crusaders is not correct, the Crusades wars took place between the 11th and 15th centuries, so it started 500 years after the emerging of Islam, and therefore, all the cities attacked were Muslim Cities with minorities from all other religious living in peace with the majority of Muslims. They mercilessly massacred Muslim peasants and burned their young children alive; they have directed their violence towards any dark-skinned peoples and those who simply wore different clothes from them, regardless of their religions. They have slaughtered around 10,000 Jews who they were defending their temple in Jerusalem.
Second: Ottoman Empire occupied the Arab world, and then, the British promised that if the Arab support the British against the Othman Empire, they will help the Arabs to establish their national Arab homeland. But as always the case, the Britsh along with France and Russian secretly have agreed through Sykes–Picot Agreement to occupy and control the Arab world.Typical Western attitudes, betraying, treachery and selfish. The never care about others, the only thing they care about is their interests
Third: Those whom you call jihadist have killed more Muslims, and they consider all Muslims (more than 1.6 billion) as Nun-Muslims and they have conducted many attacked in the mosques while Muslims were praying without any mercy. Regardless of their believe or interpretation to Islam, they are not Muslims and do not belong to Islam by their acts.

Your knowledge of the crusades is poor not his. The first crusade in 1096 was a response to a letter by the Byzantine emperor because Muslim Seljuk Turks taking over Byzantine Christian lands in Anatolia. Although Christians didn't really act chivalrous and a lot of layer crusades wwere due to Christian aggression the first crusade was a response. Second Crusde was a response to the fall of Edessa. Also the Arabs conquered the Chrsitian Iberian Peninusla years before the crusades.
The Muslims are innocent of any wrong doing in history rhetoric is incorrect. Both sides didn't hold themselves in much glory but to solely blame Christians is false.