two europa 0-0's & ssn's 2 different spins

[Pigeonho]

Prepared for a slating, but fuck it anyway.

Liverpool haven't spent what we've spent, only to go to Aris and draw.
With the money we have spent, and the first team available on Tuesday, not to mention Balotelli being on the bench, we should have gone out there and won and that is how these media bods look at it too.
Liverpool, its fair to say, have a much, much weaker first 11/squad than us but yet they were able to go away in Europe and draw. That too is how the media will look at it.
Not expecting anyone to agree, but that's pretty much the way it is.(imo)

With respect mate, that's only half the story, and I feel you're falling into the media trap of viewing just that half rather than the full.

Why did we have to spend all that money? Because our squad was shit, and we were constantly skirting with relegation before the money came along, and had to spend big to become a decent side. The only thing we had to convince the best players to come to us was money.

Liverpool were an excellent side, who won the Champion's League just 5 and a half years ago, the FA Cup the following season, and finished second in 2009 having pushed the Rags all the way.

They have histrorically spent huge amounts of money, and have been one of the very top sides in England for god knows how long.

Surely the great Liverpool, with their fantastic list of achievements and excellent recent history, going to Sparta Prague and coming away with a draw having hardly had a shot on target is cause for embarrassment, rather than some two bit side who have only been in the Premier League since 2002 (and were skirting with relegation at around the same time Liverpool won the Champion's League only a few years ago) going and getting a creditable away draw at a ground where no-one has won in Europe in 40 odd years.

I would have thought the above was a perfectly reasonable summary of the situation.

The facts are that Liverpool are a far better supported side than us, therefore they have more fans who buy papers/subscribe to Sky. These media play to their audience, and their audience want to hear how amazing and wonderful and fantastic Liverpool are, and how rubbish the big bad wolf that is Manchester City are.

Its a spin that sells papers, and thats the point. To try and bestow some some objectivity to it all is alarmingly naive.

The fact is that we both should have won, but the fact that we both didn't is being reported differently - for the above reasons.

Well put post. I never have and never will agree with the whole 'the media hate us' thing, its just simply a matter of we have gone out and shouted about who we are, (inadvertedly I mean by signing who we have signed, and spending what we have spent), and the media will continue to talk about us and have various tag names for us until we win something. It was exactly the same with Chelsea. Exactly the same, but they were already CL.
Regarding the teams though, well we haven't just spent to get better, we are now at the point where we have a first 11 who should be capable of beating whatever is put infront of them, to a degree. What would be the point in all that spending otherwise? I regard Thaksin's spending as being 'to make us better'. The Sheikh's spending is to get to the next level, and the team we can assemble should be able to get to that level. That team we put out cost whatever it cost, but couldn't beat a team 8th in the Greek league. Liverpool's team cost whatever it cost and went to a team 2nd in the Czech league and came away unbeaten. I see it like that.

 

[YaYa's Left Peg]

Does it really matter as long as we go through? At least this way, Bobby will be forced to put out a decent team in the second leg.

Aris were shocking, and with a bit of luck we could have won comfortably, but hey shit happens. Just ask Newcastle and Derby (and hopefully the Rags)!

 

[Nicholas van Whatsisface]

With respect mate, that's only half the story, and I feel you're falling into the media trap of viewing just that half rather than the full.

Why did we have to spend all that money? Because our squad was shit, and we were constantly skirting with relegation before the money came along, and had to spend big to become a decent side. The only thing we had to convince the best players to come to us was money.

Liverpool were an excellent side, who won the Champion's League just 5 and a half years ago, the FA Cup the following season, and finished second in 2009 having pushed the Rags all the way.

They have histrorically spent huge amounts of money, and have been one of the very top sides in England for god knows how long.

Surely the great Liverpool, with their fantastic list of achievements and excellent recent history, going to Sparta Prague and coming away with a draw having hardly had a shot on target is cause for embarrassment, rather than some two bit side who have only been in the Premier League since 2002 (and were skirting with relegation at around the same time Liverpool won the Champion's League only a few years ago) going and getting a creditable away draw at a ground where no-one has won in Europe in 40 odd years.

I would have thought the above was a perfectly reasonable summary of the situation.

The facts are that Liverpool are a far better supported side than us, therefore they have more fans who buy papers/subscribe to Sky. These media play to their audience, and their audience want to hear how amazing and wonderful and fantastic Liverpool are, and how rubbish the big bad wolf that is Manchester City are.

Its a spin that sells papers, and thats the point. To try and bestow some some objectivity to it all is alarmingly naive.

The fact is that we both should have won, but the fact that we both didn't is being reported differently - for the above reasons.

Well put post. I never have and never will agree with the whole 'the media hate us' thing, its just simply a matter of we have gone out and shouted about who we are, (inadvertedly I mean by signing who we have signed, and spending what we have spent), and the media will continue to talk about us and have various tag names for us until we win something. It was exactly the same with Chelsea. Exactly the same, but they were already CL.
Regarding the teams though, well we haven't just spent to get better, we are now at the point where we have a first 11 who should be capable of beating whatever is put infront of them, to a degree. What would be the point in all that spending otherwise? I regard Thaksin's spending as being 'to make us better'. The Sheikh's spending is to get to the next level, and the team we can assemble should be able to get to that level. That team we put out cost whatever it cost, but couldn't beat a team 8th in the Greek league. Liverpool's team cost whatever it cost and went to a team 2nd in the Czech league and came away unbeaten. I see it like that.

Fair point mate, and my interpretation of our respective situations in the middle of my post is not necessarily how I see it - I was just spinning it an alternative way, which I feel is probably just about as valid as Sky's spin.

The way I see it is that we both should have won - both were poor results. But that won't be the angle that is reported.

We are viewed with great negativity in the wider footballing community because we are nouveau-riche, lottery-winner wide-boys who flash their cash about and expect to be taken seriously. That's the established angle.

Liverpool are a grand old club steeped in tradition, who have done everything the right way (just typing that makes me feel a bit sick), and who have a proper, honest to goodness British Manager from back when football was the people's game - not some Italian fancy Dan with a scarf on.

Liverpool fans represent a significantly larger market share than City fans, therefore the media provide their market with the product they want - which is a perpetuation of the above angle.

Its not that they hate us per se, its just that the majority of the football fans who buy the crap they peddle want to see City fail, because to them (and I group United and Arsenal fans in with this, which when put together with Liverpool probably accounts for a huge porportion of the football supporting population in this country) we are everything that's wrong with the game at the moment - the triumph of cold hard cash over tradition and history - so that's what the media gives them. Supply and demand - simple as that.

On a final point, you mentioned Chelsea as having it just the same as us. They got a lot of stick for sure, but it wasn't exactly the same. They were still viewed as having a greater entitlement to being at the top table than us, because they were alraedy in the Champion's League, and weren't flirting with relegation as recently as 2007.

We are even worse than Chelsea, because we have no entitlement whatsoever to be competing at the top - our success is entirely artificial and based on nothing but cash and bravado. We're like the full-blown plastic surgery of football, rather than just the face-lift.

 

[waspish]

two europa 0-0's & ssn's 2 different spins

There fans are more fickle! A few years of what we been through! There gates will drop like a stone! I heard big nose(him from sky) on the radio saying is son was thinking of jacking it in! Because the football was drab and no atmosphere at the club with Hodgson in charge!!! So that's someone who bleeds Liverpool thinking if chucking it in after half season of struggle! Fickle scum!

 

[dw7]

There fans are more fickle! A few years of what we been through! There gates will drop like a stone! I heard big nose(him from sky) on the radio saying is son was thinking of jacking it in! Because the football was drab and no atmosphere at the club with Hodgson in charge!!! So that's someone who bleeds Liverpool thinking if chucking it in after half season of struggle! Fickle scum!

sure just befor hodgeson was sacked didnt they get a couple of gates below 40k

 

[benCTID]

according to ssn's revolving headlines on tuesday evening city were "held" to a goalless draw at aris despite aris never having lost a euro game at home. on the other hand liverpool, after their 0-0 draw in prague, are described on ssn's website as having "the advantage after holding [sparta] in the czech capital."

ssn. doncha just love 'em.

TYPICAL!

 

[sibierski express]

Well put post. I never have and never will agree with the whole 'the media hate us' thing, its just simply a matter of we have gone out and shouted about who we are, (inadvertedly I mean by signing who we have signed, and spending what we have spent), and the media will continue to talk about us and have various tag names for us until we win something. It was exactly the same with Chelsea. Exactly the same, but they were already CL.
Regarding the teams though, well we haven't just spent to get better, we are now at the point where we have a first 11 who should be capable of beating whatever is put infront of them, to a degree. What would be the point in all that spending otherwise? I regard Thaksin's spending as being 'to make us better'. The Sheikh's spending is to get to the next level, and the team we can assemble should be able to get to that level. That team we put out cost whatever it cost, but couldn't beat a team 8th in the Greek league. Liverpool's team cost whatever it cost and went to a team 2nd in the Czech league and came away unbeaten. I see it like that.

Fair point mate, and my interpretation of our respective situations in the middle of my post is not necessarily how I see it - I was just spinning it an alternative way, which I feel is probably just about as valid as Sky's spin.

The way I see it is that we both should have won - both were poor results. But that won't be the angle that is reported.

We are viewed with great negativity in the wider footballing community because we are nouveau-riche, lottery-winner wide-boys who flash their cash about and expect to be taken seriously. That's the established angle.

Liverpool are a grand old club steeped in tradition, who have done everything the right way (just typing that makes me feel a bit sick), and who have a proper, honest to goodness British Manager from back when football was the people's game - not some Italian fancy Dan with a scarf on.

Liverpool fans represent a significantly larger market share than City fans, therefore the media provide their market with the product they want - which is a perpetuation of the above angle.

Its not that they hate us per se, its just that the majority of the football fans who buy the crap they peddle want to see City fail, because to them (and I group United and Arsenal fans in with this, which when put together with Liverpool probably accounts for a huge porportion of the football supporting population in this country) we are everything that's wrong with the game at the moment - the triumph of cold hard cash over tradition and history - so that's what the media gives them. Supply and demand - simple as that.

On a final point, you mentioned Chelsea as having it just the same as us. They got a lot of stick for sure, but it wasn't exactly the same. They were still viewed as having a greater entitlement to being at the top table than us, because they were alraedy in the Champion's League, and weren't flirting with relegation as recently as 2007.

We are even worse than Chelsea, because we have no entitlement whatsoever to be competing at the top - our success is entirely artificial and based on nothing but cash and bravado. We're like the full-blown plastic surgery of football, rather than just the face-lift.

Well put post and the last sentance really made me laugh. So we are a Michael Jackson of the Premier League while Chelsea are simply a Sharon Osbourne. ;)

 

[jay_mcfc]

It's not a case of the press 'hating' City but SSN is run by Rupert Murdoch ffs. If anyone tells me that their reporting of City since the sacking of Hughes/appointment of Mancini then I'll tell them they are very naive.

He owns The Sun, xenophobia runs through him and his businesses like no other.

And as for Tuesday nights result, 3 days after the derby to get a draw away in Greece was a decent result. Not brilliant by any stretch but I don't see us having any problems. Knockout football is not about going out and smashing teams home and away every round.

 

[Biggsy1]

I thought exactly the same when i saw this shit!

 

[buzzer1]

We should be fkin' these, we did'nt, end of.