UK far right trouble July/August 24

inbetween said:
Hate and discrimination unfortunately comes with the nature of any religion. For example, women are treated as 2nd class citizens within Islam, that's just the way it is. Christianity was no different and it's still no different, it just so happens that Christianity has largely been marginalised in the UK but once it wasn't and you would be persecuted for your sins.

It doesn't change the fact though that our attitudes were shaped by Christianity because it for example taught that homosexuality is a sin so subsequently it was once illegal and people saw it negatively. Attitudes now have come to be shaped by rejection of Christianity and its values so today they don't persecute or put people in prison for it.

Muslims won't be any different. In countries where Islam is enforced by law homosexuality is illegal and you can be executed for it. Women are 2nd class citizens, in some countries women have to submit to their husband and they aren't allowed to drive.

We have to caution that these attitudes aren't transferred here because it would be naive to say they don't given they exist purely through religion. To say otherwise I think misses the point that discrimination is often invisible unless you're being discriminated against.
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But you're mostly talking about other countries, and focussing on the negative aspects of religion.

I was pointing out that putting religious people in a box that is marked "hate and violence" doesn't reflect the majority in this country. Christianity may be more marginal in people's lives, but most churches have become more tolerant as society as a whole has changed. Similarly, life for the majority of Muslim women in this country is very different to the more strict regimes in certain countries.

I do agree that we need to be cautious, but only in the same way we have to be cautious about the kind of intolerant views that are driving the current violence. Social media has made it a lot easier to divide people, and push groups with broadly similar views into ideological ghettos, where their attitudes can spiral. We see it on all sides that some groups are becoming less not more tolerant, and that's certainly a worry.
 
johnnytapia said:
Given the huge numbers of Chinese immigrants in Manchester, I wonder why they don’t evoke anything like the same visceral hatred we see towards the Pakistani / Muslim population.

The same is true for the Indian, Hindu, East European and Jewish communities that all seem to have integrated relatively peacefully (granted there have been the odd occasion where tensions have arisen).

It seems a particularly Islamist/ Pakistani problem.
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You say it's particularly an Islamist/Pakistani problem but Hindus and Indians, Chinese, Irish and Catholics, even Black Christians, they've all had their issues in the UK regardless of where the agitation originated from. That's without getting into the issues there are between Brits and Romanis/travellers.

But it's a combination of things isn't it. Rare but high profile terrorist attacks by radical Islamists coupled with a 20-year media obsession with Muslims and migrants and it's become a bit of a chicken and egg scenario we'll probably never recover from. Sad thing is people can't seem to separate extremists from regular everyday folk.
 
bluenova said:
It also brings people together, supports those in need, and most moderately religious people (which is the vast majority) are very tolerant, and tend to have similar beliefs.

There are obviously complexities around anything that creates differences between people, but I wouldn't say the dominant culture of any religion in this country is hate or violence. I'm an atheist, but have worked with a lot of religious organisations in the voluntary sector, and I'd argue that religious communities are more likely to be a force for good.
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When a religion rules your life it's not good, we're all different and should be able to do what the fuck we like as long as it's within the law of the country.
 
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