United (N) | FA Cup Final | Post-Match Thread

OB1 said:
I mentioned Terry because he very clearly intentionally made himself big with the idea of using any part of his body to block shots. He did it on a regular basis and was not penalised often enough.

That very obviously was not what Jack did yesterday. If you look at the right video angle you see Jack has his eyes closed and didn’t see the ball, wasn’t making himself big or doing anything unnatural.

Neither situation is difficult to interpret correctly.

If you go back to first principles, handball has to be deliberate and that has to extend to not deliberately keeping your arm out of the way / taking evasive action where you can.

I believe that referee’s should make judgements on that, they make judgements on other rules. The issue is, and long has been, having referees who are competent at making those decisions.

I hate VAR with a passion, but making big decisions (in the box) should be even easier with access to multiple video angles etc.
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The part I hate the most is they don’t run the replays for a few seconds before the alleged offence for context, all you see is a 1-2 second clip of Jacks fingers being brushed by the ball, then back again, then forward, and every time that happens the subliminal message of there’s an offence been committed, is increasing in the referees mind, it’s akin to a review in cricket to see if a batter has edged a catch, 3rd umpire will say can you rock it back & forward, until he’s satisfied one way or the other, except the handball isn’t a cut & dried penalty, and they’ve eradicated the context of the situation, it’s handball but ‘Not’ a penalty for me,
 
hello said:
Doe me the most obvious consideration is did it change the trajectory of the ball in any meaningful way. It not case closed it it did then consider intent proximity etc. At least get rid of the faintest glances that don't impact where the ball ends up being given
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How many times have we seen rerun after rerun to see if a keeper made the slightest fingertip touch to turn a ball onto the post, over the bar or wide?

At high speed, it only takes a slight touch to deviate a ball enough to stop a certain goal.

We've even seen it where a player's claimed he made a slight touch for a goal, when it could also be easily awarded to the person crossing the ball.

Many of these calls are just too close to call, even with 4k, multi-camera angles. The slightest of keeper touches can cause a ball that was gonna hit the post & go in, to hit the post & bounce to a defender who clears. We see this nearly every week in the PL.

I've no idea how we can acknowledge this as a great save, but then say the ball brushing Jack's fingertips didn't deviate the ball an inch giving Ortega a better chance of catching the cross... \0/
 
citymad said:
Just watched Jacks post match interview again. What a lovely guy, so humble and very candid. Of course his fee will always be controversial but personally I feel he's been good value for City on and off the field. You can't put a price on togetherness, hard work, brilliant technical ability and work ethic. This team has it in abundance and more.
On a side note, the body language from the female interviewers was interesting. They both looked star struck.
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Laura Woods touched him about 4 or 5 times didn’t she?
 
the blue panther said:
Most things have been said to death, but, one major moment needs to be savoured in particular.
Johnny Stones in, I think the 47th minute - tried to make a mental note as it was so good - when he took the ball under pressure on the edge of our box; controlled; drop of the shoulder; turned and strolled out towards the half line, leaving 3 scummers trailing in his wake.
Absolutely top, top drawer. M.O.M. for me.
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Stones is the finest demonstrator of the hook turn I've seen, outside or inside of his foot, it's such a simple skill but is so effective and Stones does it perfectly
 
citymad said:
Just watched Jacks post match interview again. What a lovely guy, so humble and very candid. Of course his fee will always be controversial but personally I feel he's been good value for City on and off the field. You can't put a price on togetherness, hard work, brilliant technical ability and work ethic. This team has it in abundance and more.
On a side note, the body language from the female interviewers was interesting. They both looked star struck.
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Maybe be slightly paraphrasing but,iirc,
"I just don't see how it was a pen, I wasn't even looking that way"... then... "but Gundo saved me!"
Hehehe, well done JG, fuckin love it!
 
the blue panther said:
Most things have been said to death, but, one major moment needs to be savoured in particular.
Johnny Stones in, I think the 47th minute - tried to make a mental note as it was so good - when he took the ball under pressure on the edge of our box; controlled; drop of the shoulder; turned and strolled out towards the half line, leaving 3 scummers trailing in his wake.
Absolutely top, top drawer. M.O.M. for me.
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Enjoy, 70 secs in, as you say top drawer.

 
hello said:
For me the most obvious consideration is did it change the trajectory of the ball in any meaningful way. It not case closed it it did then consider intent proximity etc. At least get rid of the faintest glances that don't impact where the ball ends up being given
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Wasn't the wank bissaka handball looked at
 
Dribble said:
I don't watch the Rags unless we play them mate, such is my utter hatred for them, so I can't comment on that one.

There will always be an element of interpretation. Handball is handball, however if the arm is down & the ball hit with power from short range, I've seen calls like that correctly ruled out because of the close proximity.

However, who determines what "close proximity" is & what a "power shot/pass" is? Again this is where interpretation & opinion come in.

Having said this, the arm being away from the body in an unnatural position is probably the closest we'll get to a resolution where there's more for this rule than against it.

But again as pointed out by Grealish, how's he supposed to jump & keep his arms down whilst trying to gain leverage?

It's unfair as Grealish evidently didn't intentionally intend to handle the ball, but I'll give you a scenario if you can be so kind as to give me your considered opinion...

So when keepers are faced with an onrushing player preparing to shoot, goalies are told to make themselves as big as possible to provide a block. I think on this one we can all agree.

Now as someone commented earlier, all handball's should be judged on intent, which is all about interpretation & opinion. But here's a scenario...

A defender (just like a keeper) makes himself big to block a chance which strikes his outstretched arm. He knows a cross or shot is coming, he makes himself big & turns to the side so he's not looking at the ball & the ball strikes his outstretched arm, blocking a cross or shot.

A. Is that handball?

B. Is it intentional?

C. Is it unintentional?
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If a defender has spread himself as wide as possible with outstretched arms, it’s deliberate handball, as it’s a premeditated action.

That’s why players hold their hands behind their backs nowadays.
 
bluwes said:
That’s why I gave it a swerve this time. 2011 was a disgrace, Bobby hats and families getting attacked, our coach lost 3 windows on the way back. I’m too old for that shit. well done to all the Blues who travelled today, came across really well on TV
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You have to support your club.

The organisation and experience yesterday was the best ever, absolutely superb !!
 
its a Barm said:
So I've only just noticed we played in the old shirt not the new one worn last week at Brentford, I heard it was going to be the new one, strange, glad we played in the old, hope we do next week.
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How magnificent would it have been that the Gundog scored his first ever hat-trick in the FA Cup final?
 
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