US Politics Thread

[mancity2012_eamo]

The left is a fragmented side. No different from the right in that respect.

Amongst the left are those who are economic lefties.

Workers rights, perhaps even a bit anti-capitalist. Love Regulations on Business and heavy taxes on the rich. 'Rich' being defined as anyone richer than themselves. No matter how rich they are. This is the "Rich should Pay their fair share" folks.

The there is the identitarian Left. Which is more animated and interestes in things like DEI, Critical Race Theory, Reparations for Minorities, Unabridged Affirmative Action. Race and Sex based preferences based on ever changing principles and ideas.

And their Cousin group: The Sexuality Left. This too is identitarian, but a newer brand. Mostly focused on sexuality. Be that Orientation or Self identification.

Those 3 form what is call the left ideologically on the U.S.

And is that what the Dems are? Are they Social Democrats?

 

[Dax777]

What I don't understand about this (and yes, I realise that weaponising the law now seems to be a perk for the govt nowadays) is why biden would have to consider so many blanket pardons for current govt officials if they are not a bunch of criminals?

File this one in the "Questions Worth Asking" department.
But be rest assured, real answers will be hard to come by :)

 

[Dax777]

And is that what the Dems are? Are they Social Democrats?

They are all of the above plus a bunch of crony capitalist at the top.

Or at least, so says the leftist populist channels I watch sometimes :)

 

[Vic]

Trump is a lame duck.

The latest Democrat talking-point / let's just redefine terms and see if anyone notices.

Is President Obama a lame duck already?​

While he doesn't quite qualify as a lame-duck president - a term reserved for the 10-week period after a successor has been elected

Is President Obama a lame duck already?

Scholars say not quite - but an ornery Congress and botched health care rollout aren't helping

www.cbsnews.com

In politics, a lame duck or outgoing politician is an elected official whose successor has already been elected or will be soon

In U.S. politics, the period between (presidential and congressional) elections in November and the inauguration of officials early in the following year is commonly called the "lame-duck period". A president is a lame duck after a successor has been elected, during which time the outgoing president and president-elect usually embark on a transition of power.

Lame duck (politics) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Wikipedia strikes again. "A president elected to a second term is sometimes seen as a lame duck from early in the second term, since term limits prevent them from contesting re-election four years later." (Also from wikipedia)

 

[Username Required]

Wikipedia strikes again. "A president elected to a second term is sometimes seen as a lame duck from early in the second term, since term limits prevent them from contesting re-election four years later." (Also from wikipedia)

Good catch. Thanks for fact-checking me and public apologies to Foggy.

 

[Vic]

You’re not wrong Dax but I just thought the name calling and ‘loser’ ‘get over it’, stuff might have died down in here and an actual debate about ‘what now’, might break out.

Brexiteers tried the "loser", "get over it" stuff but it hasn't stopped the economic damage nor the UK's diminished international status.

 

[Dax777]

Wikipedia strikes again. "A president elected to a second term is sometimes seen as a lame duck from early in the second term, since term limits prevent them from contesting re-election four years later." (Also from wikipedia)

Both Foggy and UR have legitimate points. The original meaning was restricted to Presidents who has their replacements in coming. So Biden is a lame Duck ( i.e no real power to do long-term thinking). I mean, there's a reason why world leaders are meeting with Trump now even though Biden is still President.

However, from a political power and leverage position, Lame Duck was extended to a President in his 2nd term who generally didn't have Congress on his side... Something that often happens in the 2nd half of the Presidency's 4 years when he loses Congress in the Midterm.

But Foggy was been general and UR was pushing back against a growing narrative you would hear constantly on MSN news since the election.

Fair points by both.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

This is what I mean by hand waving. The Economic views aren't that much at issue. One could debate whether or not the economy is recovering fast enough for the average man or whether the inflationary effects of the last 4 years, especially the first 2 before things calmed down a bit, can be blamed on the current government in power and their future candidates or not.

Those would be interesting debates. But we all from history know how the effects of economics weigh on voting in the next election.

When things have been bad economically, whichever party is in office almost always loses. That's just that.

But it's often not the economic issues that animated anti leftists. It's the cultural ones.

DEI is in essence just racism with lipstick. And our federal government adopted these policies across the board hook line and sinker under the present administration.

Trans ideology is another one that gets hand waved. No matter what consequences are suffered, it is disregarded as some right wing hate of people who are not like them. As of that's the issue.

We put a intelligent jurists on the Supreme Court who was too scared to define a woman at her confirmation. We have a guy ( claiming transgender rights) taping and impregnating 3 women at the NJ Prison and everyone pretended the story never happened. Or is such a minority that we should ignore it all.

We have Sanctuary Citys with catch and release laws that make Criminals go fee and re-commit crimes.

I mean for crying out loud, you and your had to go vote to re-criminalize shoplifting in your State. I mean, it wasn't some right of Center Legislature or DA's office that decided to let criminals run roughshod over the citizens in your State, was it?



2 points - I concede I was generalizing, but the point I was making is that at least until November 6th, the general tenor on these threads ( and I mean all of them) was compliance or be attacked.

I used 'right of center" loosely to mean anyone who didn't march lock and step with everything anti-Trump. Most of those weren't even on the right.

Ask @Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese who is clearly on the left, he got attacked for daring to say ' well, that's hypocritical." There was another poster who clearly hated Trump and said so often. But made the unacceptable mistake of saying He/she listened to Harris and found her unimpressive. That person too got bombarded as a Trumpist.

Finally, I know it will forever fall on deaf ears here, since I have committed the unforgivable sin of actually voting for Trump- but I have said this often over the years, that I don't like the guy.

I agree he is a narcissist, and bombastic to say the list. Funny enough, he reminds me of @SWP's back. Crass, and over the top abusive. I used to laugh at SWP, coz he is what Trump would have been, if he was left leaning.

Any, for what it's worth, I have my issues with Trump. But I wholeheartedly preferred him to anything Harris waS offering.

Well, if we assume the economy/inflation and immigration were the two hot button support issues for Trump, then again I don't see a tremendous amount of radical leftism in Democratic party leadership that Trump supporters objected to -- it was merely these were issues they (especially independents) didn't feel Biden solved, and/or made worse.

Incidentally we didn't recriminalize shoplifting -- we made penalties for shoplifting harsher. I voted for that. Even my very liberal wife voted for that. It won. Problem solved (maybe).

If it really does come down to social issues (which includes immigration -- the data on what immigrants add to an economy vs. what they subtract is very clear -- but the data on our crappy ability to monitor illegal entry is also clear), then I submit that we go back to a core ideology of Trump/conservative supporters: other people are getting something they didn't get, and they're upset about it.

Side note: some of Musk's fairly sudden support of Trump, I think, is a calculation of self-preservation in this regard -- he'd better join up with MAGA before he (Mr. Electric Car, Mr. Tech Bro, Mr. Immigrant, Mr. Hyper-Rich) becomes the target of MAGA since he has so much others don't.

This is where I begin to have problems -- as we've discussed very often before -- social media have made people more keenly aware of their shortcomings/lack to relative success/lack of fame (Andy Warhol was SO prescient!), and they're angry. And along comes a guy who gives them very convenient targets to blame for why they never lived up to what they could be.

But when we really start breaking down agency issues on a case by case basis, there are places for common ground -- like student loan forgiveness, e.g., where I personally have a real problem -- and places open for respectful discussion -- like DEI issues, where I don't have a problem, but I can absolutely see (and have seen) abuse. Then there's support for LGBTQ+ (especially trans people), where you simply aren't going to shake the deeply held liberal view that there's a ton of prejudice on the right side of the aisle. Yet all these issues seem amalgamated into this similar conservative belief connection -- no one should be entitled to get what I didn't (or couldn't).

Then we have the three hot buttons -- abortion, speech and gun control. Democrats tend to share common sense views on all three. Conservatives tend to be "all or nothing" on them. Not sure how we can't consider conservatives more extremist in this regard.

All this said, Trump won, and won clearly, and the reality is we are all going to have to beat swords into ploughshares if we really want to solve problems. I am hopeful the focus is economic and not social. As I've mentioned, with all the time I've spent in rural farmbelt America, the urban left's understanding of this life is often poor and sometimes callous. Quite frankly, I am exhausted with demonizing, my own included. But I am also very protective of and frightened for my LGBTQ+ kid and the world she'll grow up in.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Good catch. Thanks for fact-checking me and public apologies to Foggy.

Not necessary but ty. We know what I meant (even if Dax disagrees with my point :))

 

[Frank the Yank]

Well, they couldn’t take on their actual share of accumulated debt. It is so large it would sink them.

DING, DING, DING!!! We have a winner!!

They also want Washington behind them for a variety of reasons.

Even if the US granted Puerto Rico independence with no debt whatsoever, the Puerto Rican government (inept and corrupt that it is) would be back in a heartbeat. Kind of like an ex who divorced her husband who totally miscalculated that the grass isn’t always greener and wants back…