US Presidential Election, Nov 5th 2024

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So let me understand you.

Despite the fact that there is no recession, unemployment is low, the stock market up, credit is generally widely available, inflation is down, border patrols stopped more illegal immigrants than at any time during Trump’s admin and America is uninvolved directly in any wars . . . Next time this group is going to look at their circumstances in 2028 and reach a logical conclusion.

That’s what you’re saying?

If Trump implements policies that detrimentally impact any of those, which I think is extremely likely, then absolutely enough of that group will change their mind next time.

It’s not just one group when you think about the logic or motivations they’re using to place their vote. If it was, every election would be a foregone conclusion.

What I’m saying is that I think Trumps policies will have a big enough detrimental impact to enough people that unless the Dems really screw up, there is a high possibility that the pendulum will swing back to them.

That doesn’t detract from the amount of damage he could do in one term, I’m just saying this does not mean it’s a foregone conclusion maga is here to stay or has a long period of power.
 
Then I’ve been right all along — voting for Trump is a revenge vote because his supporters feel “talked down to.”

So instead — we vote for a guy who pushed the Queen out of the way during a public appearance.

But you know, he’d never talk down to you.
Lord Foggy, for someone who is clearly smart, you do your best to pretend not to understand the point.

It's not that you talk down to them. That part is your problem. It's that you think your issues should be their issues.

Let me try to explain using an analogy that would probably fail...

You are like the uppity high society guy at the upscale restaurant who is miffed that some jag-off didn't wear a jacket even though it was highly recommended.

But turn around and feel repulsed by the beggars outside praising said jag-off for giving them his leftover food.

You thinking it's important to follow restaurant etiquette might be important considering where you stand in society... But expecting the beggars outside to share your principles is what many ,( granted most of them not here,,) will consider elitist self importance.

Granted, yours isnt as bad and this analogy is t wholly accurate. But you get the gist. Your principles are not the only relevant factors.
 
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Lord Foggy, for someone who is clearly smart, you do your best to pretend not to understand the point.

It's not that you talk down to them. That part is your problem. It's that you think your issues should be their issues.

Let me try to explain using an analogy that would probably fail...

You are like the uppity high society guy at the upscale restaurant who is miffed that some jag-off didn't where a jacket even though it was highly recommended.

But turn around and feel repulsed by the beggars outside praising them for giving them their leftover food.

You thinking it's important to follow restaurant etiquette might be important considering where you stand in society... But expecting the beggars outside to share your principles is what many ,( granted most of them not here,,) will consider elitist self importance.

Granted, yours isnt as bad and this analogy is t wholly accurate. But you get the gist. Your principles are not the only relevant factors.
I am supremely disinterested in what the anti-abortion virgin wing of the GOP thinks of where I eat.

I am well aware that the physical safety of my LGBTQ kid isn’t important to you or to many who voted for Trump — you don’t need to tell me that.

That said — I’ve gotten it figured out now, thanks.
 
I am supremely disinterested in what the anti-abortion virgin wing of the GOP thinks of where I eat.

That said — I’ve gotten it figured out now, thanks.
Be kind Foggy. Be kind. Many of your ilk aren't. And the world sees you.

So be kind my good man. Be kind.
 
People don't like insoluble problems, they like solutions and tend to incline to those who offer answers that are easy to understand. They won't be lies if they work - the majority are just inclined to give Trump another a chance.
It's probably not even that complicated. When the majority don't like the trajectory of the country, they vote out the party in power.

The hope was that because some elitist thought this particular guy was so bad, perhaps the populace might not do what they've almost always done... But they did.


This isn't some complexed complicated story. Present government was poor for most of its term, then presented a poor candidate... Late... What did anyone think was going to happen?


Anything can happen, but the only real surprise would have been a Kamala Harris win.
 
This would be great post if any data at all supported that this is why people voted for Trump.

But just guessing you don’t have any.

By the way — I’m not a Democrat.
I'm not sure you have a firm grip on why people voted for trump. Most of what you have been saying about this over the last few weeks has turned out to be wrong. No shame in that - I didn't see this result coming either.
 
My objection to Trump all along has been that in any logical world he is supremely unfit to be President, and my assumption has been that most human beings would be able to look at the balance of evidence and conclude the same.

But that’s not the case. Why?

Because his voters believe character isn’t relevant? Well, I’ve lived my whole life assuming it is — and raised my kids to believe same, and try to associate with as many people as possible who believe the same — not about Trump, mind, but about how to treat others, how to behave.

The thing is I assume most of Trump’s supporters do too — not otherwise — and in fact most people in general do too, which is why this is so hard to grasp.

So what should I conclude about people who aren’t like me in this regard? You tell me — because apparently to conclude that they’re wrong means I’m an elitist or a racist . . . or something.
To conclude they are not just wrong but racist or uneducated makes you an elitist :)

Maybe because I'm removed from the situation I can take a less passionate view. Or maybe because I'm removed from it i have no right to comment. I'm undecided myself :)

We can all agree that people should be of good character. The disagreement is on what demonstrates good character. It's a crass example but exhibit A

Person A: "Trump is unfit to be President because he's a rapist"
Person B: "At least he isn't killing babies"
Person A: "why do you want to control women you regressive moron? It's 2024 women have reproductive rights"
Person B: "Tell that the baby women."

On one side good character is protecting women's reproductive rights. On one side good character is protecting the rights of the innocent (no matter the circumstances of the conception the baby is always an innocent). Both positions are reasonable to the people that hold them. Both positions are either evidence of good character or at least good enough to outweigh the less desirable characteristics.

Ha even writing this seems like such an unsatisfactory answer. I'm sorry you are in such turmoil
 
It's probably not even that complicated. When the majority don't like the trajectory of the country, they vote out the party in power.

The hope was that because some elitist thought this particular guy was so bad, perhaps the populace might not do what they've almost always done... But they did.


This isn't some complexed complicated story. Present government was poor for most of its term, then presented a poor candidate... Late... What did anyone think was going to happen?


Anything can happen, but the only real surprise would have been a Kamala Harris win.
I admit I didn't see this result coming - believed the grey beards telling me whatever happened it would be a fine margin call. Feeling pretty numb tbh, don't believe any of us can imagine how bad it could be. The only consolation is that I don't think he's interested in going to war rather than make deals - so nuclear armageddon is off the table for a few years - tho' Ukraine and the Baltic states may pay the price.
 
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