VAR - 2020/21

[Bluearmy]

But that doesn't fit his argument that var is wonderful and we are all wrong.

VAR got that correct. It was outside (just) the area as per the picture shared on here a few pages back

 

[Bluearmy]

Shrek wants VAR scrapped and the referee allowed to officiate the game. Funny that, he never seemed keen on letting them do that when he was playing.

Of course he does. The volume of decisions he personally got along with the Rags pre VAR, why would they want that to change!!

 

[Blue Mist]

VAR got that correct. It was outside (just) the area as per the picture shared on here a few pages back

You are moving the goal posts to suit your pro var stance. In real time it looked a penalty. To slow a replay down and view it from 3 different angles cannot mean it was a clear and obvious error by the referee.
The way it is going we may as well do away with the 3 officials and leave everything to a VAR man (who for convenience would be sat next to Tyler and Ratboy)

 

[Bluearmy]

You are moving the goal posts to suit your pro var stance. In real time it looked a penalty. To slow a replay down and view it from 3 different angles cannot mean it was a clear and obvious error by the referee.
The way it is going we may as well do away with the 3 officials and leave everything to a VAR man (who for convenience would be sat next to Tyler and Ratboy)

Both the penalty and Leicester first goal were incorrect decisions by the officials. VAR corrected both errors in 2 exceedingly tight calls.

VAR has its faults, mainly around the way the dodgy officials have implemented it. But it corrected both decisions.

If you have an issue with VAR due to both those incidents (which it got right), its due to your anti VAR agenda!!

And thats without VAR in the same weekend also disallowing (correctly) a penalty to United which would have turned a draw into a win for them.

 

[BlueHammer85]

@stonerblue if he had not started the childish posts most others would not have replied with the same. Also, had he not peddled lies about the vast majority of people wanting it, most would have left it as a personal opinion by him. The team he supports does not matter, his opinion is as good as anyone's, it is the way he puts it over the annoys posters.

1. what childish posts have i started ? I think some are annoyed as I sway more in having VAR than completely scrapping it. I genuinely try to be as balanced as possible and state many times the negatives of VAR. My posting style is something I will try and work on, as I’m interested in the debate of VAR rather than looking for fights on here. Much better things to do.
however, if simply having the view of being more in VAR than scrapping it makes me a ‘cheerleader for VAR’ ‘responsible for killing the game’ and a ‘c*nt’ I will rightly tell them to fuck off.

2. ‘Peddled the lie that vast majority want it ‘

is it a lie ?

The YouGov Poll last year on VAR gave :

• 8 per cent want to keep using VAR as it is used now.
• 74 per cent say keep using VAR, but change the ways it is used.
• 15 per cent want to stop using VAR entirely

(I’m in the 74% camp)

 

[NPBlue]

I'm in the 15% category.

I know in some respects it's correct, in that it's the absolute definition of the rules, but there are, for me, too many variables. The issue of frame rates by the camera mean it's impossible to accurately pinpoint everything at the precise moment the ball was struck. If the camera had been switched on a micro second earlier or later, the decision to rule a goal out for offside, when a finger or toe is deemed the deciding factor when an inch is the deciding measurement......no, it's bullshit.

It's a clinical analysis of play that destroys the emotion and soul of going to a game. We all spend a lot of money to be spectators, but for me it's a killer. We all remember the explosion of relief when Aguero scored that goal against QPR. Imagine what that moment would have been like if the screens had gone purple and we had to wait two minutes for a decision?

VAR is bollocks that destroys moments like that, and I wish it would just bugger off into the history books because it hasn't stopped the controversies.

 

[Bluearmy]

I'm in the 15% category.

I know in some respects it's correct, in that it's the absolute definition of the rules, but there are, for me, too many variables. The issue of frame rates by the camera mean it's impossible to accurately pinpoint everything at the precise moment the ball was struck. If the camera had been switched on a micro second earlier or later, the decision to rule a goal out for offside, when a finger or toe is deemed the deciding factor when an inch is the deciding measurement......no, it's bullshit.

It's a clinical analysis of play that destroys the emotion and soul of going to a game. We all spend a lot of money to be spectators, but for me it's a killer. We all remember the explosion of relief when Aguero scored that goal against QPR. Imagine what that moment would have been like if the screens had gone purple and we had to wait two minutes for a decision?

VAR is bollocks that destroys moments like that, and I wish it would just bugger off into the history books because it hasn't stopped the controversies.

You raise some very valid ponts, but lets not forget what was going on pre VAR.... the offsides decided by a camera frame are infinitely better than ones decided by corrupt officials... see below, the Liverpool ones in the 2019 run in could have cost us a league title. The Aubameyang one was nearly 3.5 meters onside and originally given off by those officials people want to give free reign too!!

I agree it needs to be less intrusive and also completely transparent....

 

[Blue Mist]

Both the penalty and Leicester first goal were incorrect decisions by the officials. VAR corrected both errors in 2 exceedingly tight calls.

VAR has its faults, mainly around the way the dodgy officials have implemented it. But it corrected both decisions.

If you have an issue with VAR due to both those incidents (which it got right), its due to your anti VAR agenda!!

And thats without VAR in the same weekend also disallowing (correctly) a penalty to United which would have turned a draw into a win for them.

Again you are not 'listening'.
I thought VAR was there 'to correct clear and obvious errors'. If you have to view something for 2 minutes, in slow motion using 4 different camera angles then the decision cannot be a clear and obvious mistake.
VAR is not technically good enough to judge offsides by millimetres and it should not be used. Someone watching a TV monitor could see the obvious offside that the linesman missed (Milner by 2 yards) or the non penalty (Sterling when it clearly hit his back)
The very fact thst VAR has been going for 2 years and we are still posting in this thread shows it and the officials are not fit for purpose.

 

[Bluearmy]

Again you are not 'listening'.
I thought VAR was there 'to correct clear and obvious errors'. If you have to view something for 2 minutes, in slow motion using 4 different camera angles then the decision cannot be a clear and obvious mistake.
VAR is not technically good enough to judge offsides by millimetres and it should not be used. Someone watching a TV monitor could see the obvious offside that the linesman missed (Milner by 2 yards) or the non penalty (Sterling when it clearly hit his back)
The very fact thst VAR has been going for 2 years and we are still posting in this thread shows it and the officials are not fit for purpose.

Cant put it any clearer. 3 errors last weekend (2 in Liverpool match/pen award in United match) it corrected them all. Is it perfect, no! Is it better than leaving it just to the officials, yes. Last weekend being clear evidence!

100% agree with you, the officials are not fit for purpose hence why we need it!

 

[Blue Mist]

Cant put it any clearer. 3 errors last weekend (2 in Liverpool match/pen award in United match) it corrected them all. Is it perfect, no! Is it better than leaving it just to the officials, yes. Last weekend being clear evidence!

100% agree with you, the officials are not fit for purpose hence why we need it!

But they are the ones interpreting it so if they are not fit for purpose the whole thing is a farce.
I am not against someone/thing helping the referee but until pigmob are made accountable and improve .....
One thing I will say is that the TV companies, especially Sky are a disgrace. They put so much pressure on refs with constant replays, pointing out genuine errors, highlighting managers moans. The refs don't stand a chance.

 

[Blue Mist]

1. what childish posts have i started ? I think some are annoyed as I sway more in having VAR than completely scrapping it. I genuinely try to be as balanced as possible and state many times the negatives of VAR. My posting style is something I will try and work on, as I’m interested in the debate of VAR rather than looking for fights on here. Much better things to do.
however, if simply having the view of being more in VAR than scrapping it makes me a ‘cheerleader for VAR’ ‘responsible for killing the game’ and a ‘c*nt’ I will rightly tell them to fuck off.

2. ‘Peddled the lie that vast majority want it ‘

is it a lie ?

The YouGov Poll last year on VAR gave :

• 8 per cent want to keep using VAR as it is used now.
• 74 per cent say keep using VAR, but change the ways it is used.
• 15 per cent want to stop using VAR entirely

(I’m in the 74% camp)

OK perhaps I was a touch sensitive about the line those living in the real world but....
I do not know anyone in favour of VAR.
Myself I do not think it is technically able to judge a tight offside so.....
It is the people who are using it and the people making the rules about its use that will not admit this and adapt its use and there actions
Where I agree with you is if something blatant is missed an 'official' should be able to tell the referee.
Do you agree that 3 years ago everyone knew the law relating to handball and now nobody does?

 

[Bluearmy]

But they are the ones interpreting it so if they are not fit for purpose the whole thing is a farce.
I am not against someone/thing helping the referee but until pigmob are made accountable and improve .....
One thing I will say is that the TV companies, especially Sky are a disgrace. They put so much pressure on refs with constant replays, pointing out genuine errors, highlighting managers moans. The refs don't stand a chance.

Pigmol have never been accountable enough or fit for purpose and most likely never will be. Its been a farce for decades before VAR came along.

However VAR does make it harder for them to cheat!! Without it Maguire gets a pen, Rags win the game last weekend. It was offside and a dive! Thats what decisions we get if we dont have VAR to keep them in check.

Its far from perfect, I get that. But the alternative is worse IMO

 

[NPBlue]

You raise some very valid ponts, but lets not forget what was going on pre VAR.... the offsides decided by a camera frame are infinitely better than ones decided by corrupt officials... see below, the Liverpool ones in the 2019 run in could have cost us a league title. The Aubameyang one was nearly 3.5 meters onside and originally given off by those officials people want to give free reign too!!

I agree it needs to be less intrusive and also completely transparent....

Well, firstly, I don't agree the officials are corrupt. Those accusations, like hot balls in FA Cup draws have been circulating for decades, without any corroboration from any individual involved. It's a long long time without someone admitting it, and there is a very simple explanation as to why. It doesn't exist.

Yes, there have always been bad decisions by the officials. One I remember was at Anfield in 2012 when Micah Richards was judged to have handled the ball when he was horizontal and the ball struck him on the arm and a penalty was awarded to Liverpool.

It's swings and roundabouts. I recall the ball being punched into the goal at Tottenham by Francis Lee, or was it Mike Summerbee, in the early 70's, and the goal stood, much to the delight of us there.

No, what I'm saying, as a match going supporter, is that it has, for me, killed the emotion and spontaneity of the game, and while there may well have been decisions by officials that were wrong pre VAR days, post VAR, wrong decisions are still being made. We are being made to wait, without a clue as to what is going on, while the armchair supporter is watching every angle in detail when a hand, or a finger, which can't legally be used in the game and isn't doing anything but be a centimetre ahead of a different coloured boot is ruling a goal offside.

VAR hasn't stopped controversies in the game regarding incorrect decisions, all it has done, and this is just my take on things, is ruin the day out, and because of that, I've lost interest.

Stupid kick off times and VAR, nah, I'm giving it a miss from now on.

Myself and a couple of friends are off to Moss Lane. Proper football. The Premier League has lost it's soul, it's too avaricious, and It's goodbye from me.

 

[saintquin]

Klopp actually raised a valid key failing in the VAR offside rule yesterday. He was lashing out at how a decision is made on when to freeze a frame for the offside to be calculated.
This is, and always will be the issue. Offside is therefore a subjective rather than scientific call as some like to pretend.
I would be fucked off if that goal had stood v City.
Klopp is still a CNT though. Never seen him raise this issue the dozens of times it has aided his team.

In rugby (union) they don't have lines drawn on the freeze frame. The ref's look at the replay on the stadium screen and decide if it's obviously off side or if it's a forward pass or not. If it's not obvious the score stands.
Everyone in the stadium can see the replay and hear what the officials are saying (if they've paid for a ref link).
The final decision is the match officials.

 

[TonyColemansbagofapples]

Well, firstly, I don't agree the officials are corrupt. Those accusations, like hot balls in FA Cup draws have been circulating for decades, without any corroboration from any individual involved. It's a long long time without someone admitting it, and there is a very simple explanation as to why. It doesn't exist.

Yes, there have always been bad decisions by the officials. One I remember was at Anfield in 2012 when Micah Richards was judged to have handled the ball when he was horizontal and the ball struck him on the arm and a penalty was awarded to Liverpool.

It's swings and roundabouts. I recall the ball being punched into the goal at Tottenham by Francis Lee, or was it Mike Summerbee, in the early 70's, and the goal stood, much to the delight of us there.

No, what I'm saying, as a match going supporter, is that it has, for me, killed the emotion and spontaneity of the game, and while there may well have been decisions by officials that were wrong pre VAR days, post VAR, wrong decisions are still being made. We are being made to wait, without a clue as to what is going on, while the armchair supporter is watching every angle in detail when a hand, or a finger, which can't legally be used in the game and isn't doing anything but be a centimetre ahead of a different coloured boot is ruling a goal offside.

VAR hasn't stopped controversies in the game regarding incorrect decisions, all it has done, and this is just my take on things, is ruin the day out, and because of that, I've lost interest.

Stupid kick off times and VAR, nah, I'm giving it a miss from now on.

Myself and a couple of friends are off to Moss Lane. Proper football. The Premier League has lost it's soul, it's too avaricious, and It's goodbye from me.

It was Francis Lee.

The bottom line is, do VAR decisions even themselves out?

Did the wrong decisions before even themselves out?

It's quite telling that you need to go back around fifty years to find a decision in our favour. I'll help you here too. Negouai handled one in for us. I said to friends he would suffer next game. He did, he was sent off in the first half at Blackburn IIRC

 

[TonyColemansbagofapples]

All anyone should ever ask for is fair and honest decisions but, unfortunately, that doesn't happen.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Well, firstly, I don't agree the officials are corrupt. Those accusations, like hot balls in FA Cup draws have been circulating for decades, without any corroboration from any individual involved. It's a long long time without someone admitting it, and there is a very simple explanation as to why. It doesn't exist.

Yes, there have always been bad decisions by the officials. One I remember was at Anfield in 2012 when Micah Richards was judged to have handled the ball when he was horizontal and the ball struck him on the arm and a penalty was awarded to Liverpool.

It's swings and roundabouts. I recall the ball being punched into the goal at Tottenham by Francis Lee, or was it Mike Summerbee, in the early 70's, and the goal stood, much to the delight of us there.

No, what I'm saying, as a match going supporter, is that it has, for me, killed the emotion and spontaneity of the game, and while there may well have been decisions by officials that were wrong pre VAR days, post VAR, wrong decisions are still being made. We are being made to wait, without a clue as to what is going on, while the armchair supporter is watching every angle in detail when a hand, or a finger, which can't legally be used in the game and isn't doing anything but be a centimetre ahead of a different coloured boot is ruling a goal offside.

VAR hasn't stopped controversies in the game regarding incorrect decisions, all it has done, and this is just my take on things, is ruin the day out, and because of that, I've lost interest.

Stupid kick off times and VAR, nah, I'm giving it a miss from now on.

Myself and a couple of friends are off to Moss Lane. Proper football. The Premier League has lost it's soul, it's too avaricious, and It's goodbye from me.

Mark Halsey was told to alter his match report. That's just one example. He chose to speak out and I'm sure he'll be looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life. There is certainly a level of corruption within the sports governance. As to how deep it goes is anyone's guess.

Mark Halsey: Former referee's claims that officials have been told to lie after matches have been denied | The Independent | The Independent

 

[saintquin]

It was Francis Lee.

The bottom line is, do VAR decisions even themselves out?

Did the wrong decisions before even themselves out?

It's quite telling that you need to go back around fifty years to find a decision in our favour. I'll help you here too. Negouai handled one in for us. I said to friends he would suffer next game. He did, he was sent off in the first half at Blackburn IIRC

A bad decision against a team in one match may mean they lose 1 or 2 points in that match. A bad decision in the next match in favour of the same team may just mean a goal for giving, a goal against ruled out, a penalty giving for or a penalty not giving against that team but may have no effect on the result.
Another being a rival may get more points from bad decisions which could have an effect on final positions. Granted this could/would happen even without VAR but, VAR was introduced to stop this from happening.
The decisions may even out but, points won or lost may not.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

In rugby (union) they don't have lines drawn on the freeze frame. The ref's look at the replay on the stadium screen and decide if it's obviously off side or if it's a forward pass or not. If it's not obvious the score stands.
Everyone in the stadium can see the replay and hear what the officials are saying (if they've paid for a ref link).
The final decision is the match officials.

If we ever get refs miked up and they us tell over the stadium public address what is happening, why they've called in VAR, and what they looking for I suspect the conversation will go along the lines of:

Dippers 'n Rags matches: Okay, Jonny, can yer have a look and see if there's enough for another St Bruno/Salah pen. Doesn't matter too much if it's barely inside the area. I do like the little fandango/curly curve he does in his run up, and the way this team are playing they're gonna take a fuckin' week to score. So a gratuitous leg-up will suit everyone. And red is my favourite colour. And besides, OGS/Jurgen is looking a bit tetchy in the tech area, It's nearly HT and I don't want to go too near him in that mood.

City games: Have a quick shufty at this, Andre/Martin/Andy/. I know Sterling has been hoisted into Row ZZ and probably won't return this side of Covid, but can we determine that the big fat-arsed fellah, I forget his name and I can't read so the name on the back of the shirt is useless, got a wee breath on the ball! Yes. ok Martin, no goal for those blue bastards.

 

[Saddleworth2]

In rugby (union) they don't have lines drawn on the freeze frame. The ref's look at the replay on the stadium screen and decide if it's obviously off side or if it's a forward pass or not. If it's not obvious the score stands.
Everyone in the stadium can see the replay and hear what the officials are saying (if they've paid for a ref link).
The final decision is the match officials.

I have said this from the start. It seems to work well in RU. Just copy it. Oh wait, then everyone would hear what goes on. ‘Can’t have that, how the fuck do we manipulate games.’