Var debate 2019/20

[Dubai Blue]

"Run it through again please Tarquin......."

"Foot comes down...on top of Silva's foot....he goes down...in pain...."

"One more time please sweeteee...."

"Foot comes down... yep.....on top of Silva's foot....yep.......he goes down...in pain....yep..."

"Yep ok....I've made my decision...NOOOOO PENAL TEEEEEEE HEHE HEHE ! " (round of applause)

Sounds about right!

At the VERY least, they're going to have to start broadcasting these conversations (both on TV and over the tannoy) like they do in the cricket. It can't be right that those of us in the ground last week had no idea what was going on at the end of the game.

Equally, yesterday, everyone watching on TV is seeing VAR replays that show a nailed-on penalty, one of those stonewallers where there can't possibly be even a single shred of doubt. Yet after a minute of pissing about, it doesn't get given. At least explain to us why!

 

[give it to gordon]

Silva foot stamped on yesterday by Bournemouth was FACT and a penalty.....

There is no harm in saying ref got it wrong and overturning his decision.....that's what VAR is for !

I agree but you cant really have someone sitting in his shed over ruling you when you are on the pitch , it would make it seem that the match ref is crap plus I guess it would put more pressure on the refs knowing that every mistake is going to notice by big brother. I wont like it if I was a ref. I can see why they back the ref but it doesn't make it right.

 

[Fabled mabel]

Here's a question: WHAT THE FUCK WERE THEY REVIEWING ?

They were reviewing a video called 'Swedish Schoolgirls visit the Theatre of PIGMOL Dreams'.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Thanks for that. My excuse is that I sit opposite the away bench and just can't spot a TV monitor on the other side. Referees can't spot stuff under their nose though.

I think the VAR worked quite well in the 2018 WC because they did use the monitors and it was seen by people as the match ref having the final say which is important. Less so in the Champions League but they had that fiasco with it not working in that Ota incident.

My next question for you or anyone else is that we know the VAR has another ref in his little box but what technical assistance do they get with all those cameras and camera angles and who selects what is seen. There is a lot of technology there and I expect a ref to be a football expert (some hope of that) rather than a techno freak. In the videos above Andy Gray asks people off screen to do the frame by frame stuff for him and I remember when he was at Sky he was pretty good with the tech stuff - well it was his day job.

I am cynical about what the VAR gets to see when I see the the decisions that have gone against us in the first three games and consider how Sky still love the Sky 4. BT have got rid of that dreadful Liverpool fan of a CEO but there are still many left.

Pretty sure the ‘Hawkeye’ people supply both the technology and the people to use the technology. He/she attempts to give the second referee the best angle from which to view incidents. I thought Andy Gray was interesting when he said that there’s ‘been a meeting’ where ‘they’ve’ said that the intention of VAR is NOT to disallow goals that are offside by a millimetre. Possible clarification during the international break?

 

[Dubai Blue]

My next question for you or anyone else is that we know the VAR has another ref in his little box but what technical assistance do they get with all those cameras and camera angles and who selects what is seen. There is a lot of technology there and I expect a ref to be a football expert (some hope of that) rather than a techno freak. In the videos above Andy Gray asks people off screen to do the frame by frame stuff for him and I remember when he was at Sky he was pretty good with the tech stuff - well it was his day job.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...ngry-fans-chant-F-VAR-inside-drab-bunker.html

I seem to remember seeing an answer to your question in this article yesterday.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Sounds about right!

At the VERY least, they're going to have to start broadcasting these conversations (both on TV and over the tannoy) like they do in the cricket. It can't be right that those of us in the ground last week had no idea what was going on at the end of the game.

Equally, yesterday, everyone watching on TV is seeing VAR replays that show a nailed-on penalty, one of those stonewallers where there can't possibly be even a single shred of doubt. Yet after a minute of pissing about, it doesn't get given. At least explain to us why!

The explanation they will have worked on, will be fucking pathetic, when it comes out & no doubt will once again break their own rules, meaning yet another 'adaptation' now has to come in, where standing on someone's foot, is deemed 'accidental' .

 

[Neville Kneville]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...ngry-fans-chant-F-VAR-inside-drab-bunker.html

I seem to remember seeing an answer to your question in this article yesterday.

Mike Riley is there!!??

That explains everything. He is fucking useless.

 

[Dubai Blue]

The explanation they will have worked on, will be fucking pathetic, when it comes out & no doubt will once again break their own rules, meaning yet another 'adaptation' now has to come in, where standing on someone's foot, is deemed 'accidental' .

Yes, you're right. "Explain" was probably the wrong way to phrase it. I'm not interested in their post-match explanations where they've had time to defend the indefensible. I want to hear their reasoning as it's happening in real time. Without that, the whole system is an unaccountable mess.

 

[flook]

I don’t have any problem at all with them using VAR to rule on offsides. So what if its not 100% accurate due to frame speeds ?

Agreed, but the advantage HAS to be with the attacker, so a close call (6 inches/15 inches depending onwhere you read the accuracy) should not be flagged

 

[Neville Kneville]

Yes, you're right. "Explain" was probably the wrong way to phrase it. I'm not interested in their post-match explanations where they've had time to defend the indefensible. I want to hear their reasoning as it's happening in real time. Without that, the whole system is an unaccountable mess.

Which should have been the situation, before they even started using it.

It's not an accident, that these people are not informing the public as they make these decisions. It's a system they have chosen.

But yesterday there is no 'grey' area. They either play on, or they review it.

If they choose to review it, as they did, then they can't actually show a clear obvious penalty & then find a reason not to give it.

It's a fucking penalty!

 

[Newquayblue]

I agree but you cant really have someone sitting in his shed over ruling you when you are on the pitch , it would make it seem that the match ref is crap plus I guess it would put more pressure on the refs knowing that every mistake is going to notice by big brother. I wont like it if I was a ref. I can see why they back the ref but it doesn't make it right.

Why not? VAR puts the players under that level of scrutiny.

 

[Wolfy]

I’m already sick of these freeze frames to justify offside decisions. It’s already been established that it’s not accurate enough and yet they’re doubling down on it.

Even the Fake Ronaldo decision, If you go back or forward a single frame, the decision will change completely.

For me, there needs to be a third line; a thick yellow one for degree of error which if the blue & red lines are both in, its ref’s call (and by ref’s call, I mean he should say it’s too close; benefit of doubt to the attacker) - if your goal is ruled out there, at least you can see why.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

I agree but you cant really have someone sitting in his shed over ruling you when you are on the pitch , it would make it seem that the match ref is crap plus I guess it would put more pressure on the refs knowing that every mistake is going to notice by big brother. I wont like it if I was a ref. I can see why they back the ref but it doesn't make it right.

It happens in rugby league.

The refs send a decision up to the Video Ref, either saying “I’ve got a try” or “I’ve got no try”.

Then the VR will prove or disprove the ref’s decision. There has to be enough evidence to overturn the ref’s decision but it if there’s enough evidence he will do it.

For some reason in rugby league, it’s accepted that the refs, who only see something once from one angle at one speed, can make a mistake. PiGMOL seem scared to death of that. I have no idea why.

Nobody is going to think any differently of the ref if VAR disproves their decision. It’s the limitations of a human that seeing something live once cannot always confirm a decision, so the VAR needs to disprove them if they have the evidence.

That’s exactly why it’s there.

 

[carlosthejackal]

The problem is that it’s shrouded in mystery, I can’t see why spurs were denied one yesterday . Unless they implement it like the cricket where the conversation is public then it’s always going to be open to accusations of corruption.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

I’m already sick of these freeze frames to justify offside decisions. It’s already been established that it’s not accurate enough and yet they’re doubling down on it.

Even the Fake Ronaldo decision, If you go back or forward a single frame, the decision will change completely.

For me, there needs to be a third line; a thick yellow one for degree of error which if the blue & red lines are both in, its ref’s call (and by ref’s call, I mean he should say it’s too close; benefit of doubt to the attacker) - if your goal is ruled out there, at least you can see why.

Indeed. Good idea

 

[Deleted member 77198]

The problem is that it’s shrouded in mystery, I can’t see why spurs were denied one yesterday . Unless they implement it like the cricket where the conversation is public then it’s always going to be open to accusations of corruption.

Lasceles fell over in the same line of trajectory he was running in and Kane cut across into that line, Kane could have carried on running in his straight line and he wouldn’t have been brought down.

 

[Bandofblues]

Isn’t far easier for the powers to be to screw you over without VAR ?

for instance, Silvas pen - ref could just book him casually for diving. Couple of the Walker challengers ref could have just gave a straight red , Aguero goal lino could just put his flag up ?

Far easier for the officials to be corrupt before the introduction of VAR

Last season Salah got countless soft penalties, all of which were awarded by the onfield referee.
Everyone thought VAR - fantastic it's going to stop all that shit.

This season so far what we have is onfield referees not giving stonewall penalties (to City and to other top six challengers) and VAR doing nothing about it.
The onfield refs are hiding behind VAR, they will claim not to have seen it or not to be 100% certain and therefore unable to give it. Meanwhile everyone has stopped having digs at them as all the attention is deflected to the faceless VAR officials instead because they are not correcting the clear and obvious mistakes that have been made.

Time will tell whether Liverpool continue to get soft penalties from the onfield refs compared to other teams. When they get a few stonewall penalties ignored by the onfield ref and ignored by VAR then things will be even. I will be watching how their games are reffed with interest.

The biggest issue is however that VAR was supposed to be brought in to get the decisions correct and it's already absolutely failed in this regard just three games into the season. It's not the technology because at the end of the day the penalty reviews are simply someone rewinding a video. The consistent failure to correct/overrule the onfield refs decision is not something that can be put down to human error it is policy and policy is set by the higher ups in the game.

We (fans of all teams) are paying customers and are being shafted by the PL policy makers.

I think I would have more trust in a VAR panel of Ferdinand, Neville and Scholes - and that says it all!

 

[Neville Kneville]

I’m already sick of these freeze frames to justify offside decisions. It’s already been established that it’s not accurate enough and yet they’re doubling down on it.

Even the Fake Ronaldo decision, If you go back or forward a single frame, the decision will change completely.

For me, there needs to be a third line; a thick yellow one for degree of error which if the blue & red lines are both in, its ref’s call (and by ref’s call, I mean he should say it’s too close; benefit of doubt to the attacker) - if your goal is ruled out there, at least you can see why.

It's dead easy.

So no way they'll do it.

 

[waspish]

Yep and as always, Liverpool receive the soft ones and we are denied two stonewall penalties (by the idiot ref on the pitch).

Var was meant to even that up but it’s completely fucking impotent on penalties as they are ‘subjective’. Why the PL decided not to use the pitchside monitorstjat they actually have in place (unlike the rest of Europe), fuck only knows. They’ll simply have to change that.

Agree we should have pitch side screens for referees.

What do you expect from Mike Riley his incompetence and Arrogance is breathtaking his Cayman Island bank account must be bulging

 

[Neville Kneville]

Last season Salah got countless soft penalties, all of which were awarded by the onfield referee.
Everyone thought VAR - fantastic it's going to stop all that shit.

This season so far what we have is onfield referees not giving stonewall penalties (to City and to other top six challengers) and VAR doing nothing about it.
The onfield refs are hiding behind VAR, they will claim not to have seen it or not to be 100% certain and therefore unable to give it. Meanwhile everyone has stopped having digs at them as all the attention is deflected to the faceless VAR officials instead because they are not correcting the clear and obvious mistakes that have been made.

Time will tell whether Liverpool continue to get soft penalties from the onfield refs compared to other teams. When they get a few stonewall penalties ignored by the onfield ref and ignored by VAR then things will be even. I will be watching how their games are reffed with interest.

The biggest issue is however that VAR was supposed to be brought in to get the decisions correct and it's already absolutely failed in this regard just three games into the season. It's not the technology because at the end of the day the penalty reviews are simply someone rewinding a video. The consistent failure to correct/overrule the onfield refs decision is not something that can be put down to human error it is policy and policy is set by the higher ups in the game.

We (fans of all teams) are paying customers and are being shafted by the PL policy makers.

I think I would have more trust in a VAR panel of Ferdinand, Neville and Scholes - and that says it all!

The good thing is that currently neither Ferguson nor Mourinho are working in the PL.

If they were, they would have these guys by the balls within a month & get an extra 15 points each out of it.