Var debate 2019/20

[mayo31]

I see part of the problem is the desire is not undermine the referee. The VAR crew can overturn the goal because neither the referee, or anyone else, could spot the handball in real time. So no shame of the ref'.
With the penalty shout, the VAR crew think to themselves "The ref's dropped a bollock here, it's an obvious pen". However to pipe it down Oliver's ear, makes him look foolish and risks his credibility, so they leave it.

The ref could simply say he never saw the penalty incident, then there no need to look foolish.

What has actually happened is City have been cheated

You only have to watch a game to see how we are treated differently when it comes to decisions

Sterling booked but dembele not booked

Bernardo penalised for a foul when he was fouled

We could go on and on

 

[simon23]

Sky couldn't say if it touched his arm or the defenders.there is no clear proof either way,at most it brushed his arm but didn't help the balll onto gabby,they tried hard to chalk it,the whole thing is wrong,the way they have set it up is to stop goals and up the other end give less pens as that has to be deliberate handball,they are trying to stop what makes us love football,it is not a great ad for anyone who loves the prem

you can see on the replays that it clearly did hit his arm.....denying it is just desperation...ive literally just watched it again and you can see it....would you see it in real time.....i didnt from the tv pictures but on the replays you an clearly see it hits his arm...therefore as it was in the buildup to the goal, like it or not it was correctly disallowed.

 

[PrezIke]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/18/pep-guardiola-manchester-city-tottenham-var

Wilson I believe is amongst those that hates us, and you can read it in here, although also a few fair questions points (other than of course the last paragraph):

VAR, it turns out, far from being some neutral all-seeing eye, a benevolent Big Brother visiting justice upon the world, has plunged the game into epistemological crisis. What is handball? If players can move up to 15cm between frames, how can offsides be given to an accuracy of millimetre? What is “clear and obvious” and could something be obvious but not clear? What level of error are we prepared to accept so claims of accuracy don’t make us uncomfortable? And is it really right that there’s strict liability for a ball brushing a player’s arm but not for one player barging another in the back?

But the disallowing of Gabriel Jesus’s apparent winner was more than just another VAR call; it was a decision locked in such regress of ironies it felt like football was almost wilfully exercising its mischievous streak. Aymeric Laporte did handle the ball and as the law now stands, any contact with the arm in the buildup to a goal is an offence. By the law, the decision was correct, just as it was correct that Leander Dendoncker’s goal against Leicester last week was ruled out.

But minds inevitably go back to that quarter-final last year and the vital goal Fernando Llorente scored for Spurs via a deflection off his arm. Under the law as it now stands, that would have been ruled out. Raheem Sterling, of course, then had an injury-time goal ruled out for offside; had VAR been operational the previous season, the goal City had chalked off for offside shortly before half-time in the second leg of the quarter-final tie against Liverpool would have stood. City’s misfortune has been to keep finding themselves a year behind the interpretation.

It’s coincidence of course, and certainly not the conspiracy many City fans leaving the Etihad seemed to want to claim but still, it’s hard not to appreciate the irony VAR, ostensibly a force for order and consistency in football, should, even though it’s likely to be temporary, be playing such a central role in undermining Guardiola’s quest for order. Football, even now, will have its sport.

 

[simon23]

Don't mind me i'm still annoyed lol
The atackers,if the ball touches their hand or arm it's handball full stop,up the other end if it touches the defenders arm or hand then it has to be deliberate and the arm outside of their natural silloette(sp) thus stopping goals scored whilst giving less pens,it's like they have plucked some work experience kid from tesco's to make up the rules,how football men can want to stop goals is mindboggling

agree - the rule needs changing.....

I always had a problem with the idea about an arm/hand being in an unnatural/ natural position...especialy when a player is jumping as its natural to raise and move your arms upwards when jumping for balance and propulsion...

now i think it says in the rules (for defneders at least) if they are using the arms to make their body bigger.....however when jumping that again is also natural as again you have to raise your arms to jump (or at last this is the natural way to jump)....if the defnders feet are on the ground then its a differnt mater and if the arm is away from he side of the body then penalties are goi g to be given.....hence why you see a lot of defenders when jockying ttackers now have their arms behind their baks (which is an unnatural position)...Vinne Kompany was a master at this....he use to throw his body in the way of an attacker who was shooting while he had his arms behind him...a completely unntural thing to do as your arms would come up to protect your face but he didnt do this (he must have practised it)

for me the rule should be if the arm moves towards the ball and the defnder had the oppotunity to get the arm out of the way (this stops attackers hitting the ball at defenders trying to get penalties)....

 

[PrezIke]

I will admit I was and still have reasons to be a proponent of VAR, but I can also see the problems it causes to this sport, in particular.

In almost all other sports scoring is FAR more likely to occur, so if VAR or "Instant Replay" takes it away the impact is arguably less, because even though we may have had 30 chances, everyone knows that no club converts at even a 10% rate. xG had our goals I believe at 3 to Spurs .3 (?) The difficulty of taking chances is the nature of the sport.

In the case of the Jesus' goal that VAR took away, the problem as many have alluded to and is arguably worse than VAR is, as they said on MOTD, the new handball rule.

However, we also have a HUGE problem of inconsistency with VAR being applied. We all know everyone on MOTD thought that Rodri earned a pen, and they said they felt that way watching in real time. What happened there? I'd really like to know.

Hard to not see how this is not anything other than a MASSIVE example of VAR being applied wrong or inconsistently. We are understandably going to feel dubious about what's behind this because of our real and legit experiences with governing bodies, and the long list of those who seem determined to see City fail.

The shirt pull on Laporte's arm should also have been noted either as something to say that led to him possibly hitting the ball with his arm, or was a pen in itself. Watching it in real time again the last time I did I didn't see the shirt pull, but you can clearly see a bit of a tug at it in the slow motion replay or even the image that's out there on Twitter.

 

[ballinio]

you can see on the replays that it clearly did hit his arm.....denying it is just desperation...ive literally just watched it again and you can see it....would you see it in real time.....i didnt from the tv pictures but on the replays you an clearly see it hits his arm...therefore as it was in the buildup to the goal, like it or not it was correctly disallowed.

Gary Lineker, Danny Murphy , Garry Neville, Alan Shearer say it was a goal & shouldn’t have been disallowed , Simon23 says it was right to be disallowed

 

[simon23]

Gary Lineker, Danny Murphy , Garry Neville, Alan Shearer say it was a goal & shouldn’t have been disallowed , Simon23 says it was right to be disallowed

no tehy said the rule is wrong and therefore it should have been a goal...i agree with that...

What im saying is that the ref/VAR interptied the present rule correctly.....the rule is wrong however.

 

[pardoeofftomexico]

It is pointless anyone arguing whether it hit Laporte's arm, it did. The decision was technically correct. What needs to be argued is the stupid rule. The rule should simply be that to be handball the arm should be in an unnatural position or there should be movement of the arm towards the ball thus deflecting it.

 

[dobobobo]

you can see on the replays that it clearly did hit his arm.....denying it is just desperation...ive literally just watched it again and you can see it....would you see it in real time.....i didnt from the tv pictures but on the replays you an clearly see it hits his arm...therefore as it was in the buildup to the goal, like it or not it was correctly disallowed.

Go on then, point out the exact point.

 

[oakiecokie]

no tehy said the rule is wrong and therefore it should have been a goal...i agree with that...

What im saying is that the ref/VAR interptied the present rule correctly.....the rule is wrong however.

They most certainly did and for those very reasons its NOT VAR thats causing the problems its the bastard rule change to handball.Why the fuck did the PL think it would be a good idea to be the only ones in world football to use this new format is beyond me.