Var debate 2019/20

[bobbyowenquiff]

If, as has been widely reported, it is true that VAR has a margin of error of 13cms on off side calls because of the camera speed then it is impossible to give any one offside by less than 13 cms. Surely this change has to be brought in immediately. The simplest solution is to use 13 cms as the guideline ie you can only be offside by more than 13 cms to take account of the limit of the technology. Doing this would cut out most of the nonsense decisions.

 

[alexmcity]

You'll catch a few with that one.

Remember when they instructed refs to take action in the box against players who block the attacker when defending a corner? When Sterling conceded a penalty? Don't think it happened again all season or since - same thing will happen here, there'll be dozens of accidental handballs left unpunished.

I'm making a prediction. People will disbelieve it now but come the end of the season I'll be right and the disbelievers wrong. I'm not talking about those who do not accept VAR per se but about those who think that they will use VAR to screw us over. Ultimately, VAR will be good for City.

 

[Bunchofdickovs]

I think it’s quite clear.

1. Handball (even if accidental)
2. Gains possession of the ball and then
2i. Scores in the opponents net
2ii. Creates a goal scoring opportunity (can be for himself or a team mate, why does that matter? a gso is a gso and 2ii doesn’t matter anyway if he doesn’t gain possession of the ball)
3. Or scores directly in the opponents net with his arm (even if accidental)

So to break that down into two examples:

Llorente CL goal
1. It was accidental handball by Llorente
2. He did not gain possession of the ball
2i. Void as he didn’t gain possession of the ball
2ii. Void as he didn’t gain possession of the ball
3. The ball hit his arm then hit his hip and went in, it didn’t go directly into the goal off his arm
= GOAL

Jesus Prem goal
1. It was accidental handball by Laporte
2. He did not gain possession of the ball
2i. Void
2ii. Void
3. Void as the ball went to a teammate (Jesus) after he accidentally handballed, not straight onto the net
= GOAL

you keep repeating the same thing but you do not understand that difference between gaining possession of the ball and gaining control of the ball . The law differentiates between the two .

Gaining control = The player has now got the ball under their control.

Gaining Possession = The player has gained or kept possession of the ball for their team .

The ball hits his arm and therefore falls to Jesus (kept possession following the cross ) . Jesus then scores .

Goal disallowed because of an unfair advantage from the ball hitting his arm .

 

[TheRemainsOfTheDave]

I'm making a prediction. People will disbelieve it now but come the end of the season I'll be right and the disbelievers wrong. I'm not talking about those who do not accept VAR per se but about those who think that they will use VAR to screw us over. Ultimately, VAR will be good for City.

It'll be difficult to prove. You'd need to take into account how important the decision was (late winners vs 5th goal in a 5-0 win etc) plus build in adjustments due to the number of chances a team makes. Then you'll need to factor in when VAR was or wasn't used and whether that was a correct decision in the first place.

 

[Father Paul]

VAR will be good for City ultimately. Dippers and rags won't score from off-side positions at least and won't get so many favourable decisions. Rags got 12 pens last season, 3 times what we got. Won't happen with VAR, I'm perfectly sure about that. We'll benefit in some important games from VAR as well and people will find it more acceptable.

No it won't be acceptable to me in its current format. I don't want to see the current farce continue and ruin the season for everyone. While the handball rule is an important aspect it is not the root cause of the problem. VAR is not been operated imo in a manner which is fair and consi
stent and to reduce the incidence of clear and obvious errors affecting the outcome of games. It failed miserably on Saturday in this regard. Missed correcting an error for the penalty and then struck off a goal which nobody in the universe saw anything wrong with. Sorry but VAR in its current state is not fit for purpose and I don't want to win or lose the league as a result of its bullshit interventions.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

I think it’s quite clear.

1. Handball (even if accidental)
2. Gains possession of the ball and then
2i. Scores in the opponents net
2ii. Creates a goal scoring opportunity (can be for himself or a team mate, why does that matter? a gso is a gso and 2ii doesn’t matter anyway if he doesn’t gain possession of the ball)
3. Or scores directly in the opponents net with his arm (even if accidental)

So to break that down into two examples:

Llorente CL goal
1. It was accidental handball by Llorente
2. He did not gain possession of the ball
2i. Void as he didn’t gain possession of the ball
2ii. Void as he didn’t gain possession of the ball
3. The ball hit his arm then hit his hip and went in, it didn’t go directly into the goal off his arm
= GOAL

Jesus Prem goal
1. It was accidental handball by Laporte
2. He did not gain possession of the ball
2i. Void
2ii. Void
3. Void as the ball went to a teammate (Jesus) after he accidentally handballed, not straight onto the net
= GOAL

It's quite clear to us, PC, and were I the whistling wanker strolling about the lush acres of The Etihad on Saturday I would have had no hesitation at awarding the pen. And were I in the VAR shed at Stockley and had the incident referred to me I would have had less hesitation in confirming the same. I concur with all those re Jesus's goal - he didn't have the ball brush his arm or hand and consequently didn't gain a goal scoring opportunity. It was a nailed on, blatant, stonewall pen and it was a goal that didn't have an infringement nailed on to the goalscorer. If Oliver or Scott were goalkeepers both of those incidents would be described as 'howlers'. These two are experienced referees and referees with that level of experience don't make those 'honest' mistakes. Too many questions remain regarding those two incidents that can't be dismissed by just parroting 'honest mistake'?

I've just read that Scott didn't make the CFC game yesterday because he got 'caught in traffic'? Interesting or what, and Pep has suggested that refs shouldn't be doing two important games in two days. Can't see where the hard work is in looking at a monitor and making a decision.

 

[PistonBlue]

Regardless of whether the handball decision was correct or not I do think there’s something fundamentally wrong with the VAR system. When this all seeing eye can rule a goal out for something nobody in the stadium, players, officials or fans could see, but is unable to do anything about a rugby tackle in the penalty area then something is clearly wrong. The foul on Rodri was as clear and obvious an error as you’re likely to see.
From what we’ve seen already, and I’ll admit I’m sympathetic to the whole agenda conversation, but this system as I suspected it would be is open to manipulation in terms of how and when it is used.
We got shafted on Saturday, and we can’t even have a go the referee because he had fuck all to do with it.
VAR should have been a system that was fair and we could all trust, unfortunately the operators are every bit as questionable as they always have been.

 

[flook]

It's this deliberately murky bit that can be hidden behind. Creating a goal-scoring opportunity for whom? I would always read that it is a gso for the person whose arm the ball inadvertently brushed against, but now it's been given that Laporte gave Jesus an opportunity it can be dragged back to God knows what incident. I think they have looked for anything iffy whilst the ball was bobbling around and found Laporte loitering with intent. I would bet the cheating bastards would redefine that bit when it comes to a Rag or Dipper arm.

but thats irrelevant, see the underlined but, for the goalscoring opportunity to come into play, Laporte would have had to gain control, which he obviously didn't

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

I'm making a prediction. People will disbelieve it now but come the end of the season I'll be right and the disbelievers wrong. I'm not talking about those who do not accept VAR per se but about those who think that they will use VAR to screw us over. Ultimately, VAR will be good for City.

I admire your optimism but will be amazed if Liverpool or United suffer the sort of decisions we have had. They have been getting suspicious decisions for decades at the expense of other teams, not just City. Remember the "Howard Webb" match between United and Arsenal which has been posted here many times. Look at the Super Cup penalty where the Liverpool keeper clearly came off his line. Chelsea were cheated plain and simple. I hope you are right but let's wait and see.

 

[stonerblue]

Thank you.

Duncan Castles sticking up for City!? I need a lie down.

Why is that not a penalty?