Var debate 2019/20

[Colin Bell (genuine name)]

There are 3 ways that a goal can be ruled out after a handball and NONE of them apply to Laporte/Jesus.

1. It is an offence if a player scores in an opponents' goal directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental (Boly, Aguero and Nathan Redmond last season)

2. It is an offence if a player gains possession/control of the ball after it hits their hand/arm and then scores in the opponents' goal ( Llorente, champions league against us)

3. It is an offence if a player gains/possession control of the ball after it hits their hand/arm and the creates a goal scoring opportunity (Thierry Henry for France against Ireland handballed and then squared it to Wiltord who scored)

Note the difference between 1 and 2. If the offending player scores the goal he either has to do it directly or take possession/ control and the possession/control rule applies equally to the creating a goal scoring opportunity.

These rules are clear and easy to understand so why did PGMOL find them so difficult they had to make their own rule up in that any handball leading to a goal will be an offence.

 

[M12Blue]

There are 3 ways that a goal can be ruled out after a handball and NONE of them apply to Laporte/Jesus.

1. It is an offence if a player scores in an opponents' goal directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental (Boly, Aguero and Nathan Redmond last season)

2. It is an offence if a player gains possession/control of the ball after it hits their hand/arm and then scores in the opponents' goal ( Llorente, champions league against us)

3. It is an offence if a player gains/possession control of the ball after it hits their hand/arm and the creates a goal scoring opportunity (Thierry Henry for France against Ireland handballed and then squared it to Wiltord who scored)

Note the difference between 1 and 2. If the offending player scores the goal he either has to do it directly or take possession/ control and the possession/control rule applies equally to the creating a goal scoring opportunity.

These rules are clear and easy to understand so why did PGMOL find them so difficult they had to make their own rule up in that any handball leading to a goal will be an offence.

And if the ref then said I’m disallowing for rule x whilst it is clearly not the case and is being shown to the paying fans, then they correctly would not be able to hide behind the ineptitude on show currently

 

[Phil1]

So after reading a number of these posts, am I right in thinking that the entire FA, the referees association, Sky TV, literally everyone influential in football, is part of a league wide conspiracy to punish Manchester City more than Liverpool, and to give Liverpool an unfair advantage in the league?

This is genuinely what people are saying/implying?

Yep, and they still won’t stop us la.

 

[ctid1894]

If you believe it’s bent then why do you even bother?

Can you tell me, if it’s bent, then why has no decision on a penalty been overturned in 29 matches rather than just us? Or is that to make it less obvious as well?

As for 3 in 3 being suspect, was it or was it not a penalty on McTominay (sp?) yesterday?

You’re talking biased crap. Every set of fans (just about) hates var already, everyone thinks it’s screwing them and that’s after 3 games. I’m sure it will be unanimous by game week 15. Var is absolutely not fit for purpose and their rules on ‘clear and obvious’ just have to change. But that doesn’t mean that City are the one and only target and saying that is the case is pure paranoia.

So can you tell me who else has been subject to 3 absolutely 100% proven “incorrect” decisions (e.g. Sterling/Jesus offside, Rodri penalty and Silva penalty)?

Combine that with a highly contentious 93rd minute handball decision that is inconclusive if you look at actual evidence (not a single poster on Bluemoon or anywhere else could provide conclusive evidence, just video which can be seen either way). It’s a subjective decision based on the probability of the ball hitting Laporte’s hand, not a definitive decision. There’s also a penalty not given for Laporte’s arm being pulled back less than a second before the handball, conveniently ignored.

You will mention the foul on Martial against Palace which was outside the box, a foul on Rashford which was a clear slip.

The fact remains “incorrect” decisions being given whether it’s to one or all, when there’s evidence there to ensure the correct decisions are made. The lack of overturning VAR decisions at the very very least is an attempt to cover up appalling refereeing standards which is corruption in itself.

 

[kaz7]

Dippers won't suffer tho from var they will get decisions go against them, but only when they are safely ahead and a decision against them won't cost them. In fact it will be good for them cos it will muddy the statistics record and they can legitimately cry and say the world's against them .

They don't have to make a single decision in a dipper game they just have to keep making them in ours
VAR was sold as getting the decisions correct,so no more offside goals or dodgy pens we all thought,meanwhile they never intended to overturn bad decisions no matter how much of a gaff it is,they lied through their teeth as they knew they would never get it through if they said it wasn't going to make any difference,also they have taken football apart and brought in the threshold that not a single one of them will explain what it is and why a foul is not a foul,sneaky ****s have sold us a pup

 

[ctid1894]

Rags have already been done over. Martial penalty claim yesterday was as clear as they come.

I know we’ve seen penalties for fouls outside the box in previous years for United but come on.

There’s a blatant foul but that’s outside the box on Martial, yes he’s still losing his balance in the box absolutely but the foul occurred outside the box. You show me the foul inside the box and I’ll happily stand corrected.

 

[ctid1894]

According to the liar Swarprick on live national radio Oliver did see it On Monday Night Football Neville showed he wasn’t even looking in that direction

Absolute proof of corruption, even if it’s just to cover up their own mistakes, it’s still corruption.

 

[Mid Wales blue]

Why are the main money men/TV rights (Sky) not calling VAR out?
As the main backers of the Premier League, you’d think they would be questioning the integrity of the PGMOL!
Why have they chosen to differ from VAR used by all other football associations?
Why have they added their own twist on how VAR should be used?
Why is the VAR for all games together in the same room?
Why is the head of the PGMOL overseeing the operation of VAR?
Isn’t VAR supposed to be 3 officials, in a room on their own, without any outside influence/interference?

If it was my Company that was paying for the TV rights, I’d be screaming foul play from the rooftops!

 

[ctid1894]

There were at least half a dozen posters who said Martials wasnt a pen. I mean just fuckin lol, you couldn't get a more clearer pen, it pissed on their chips that Var had not awarded it just so they could continue it's going to favour them.

You mean the foul outside the box.

 

[SebastianBlue]

From ESPN’s Premier League Weekend Review and Sky Sports’ Premier League Talking Points...

Nearly everyone sees that VAR, in it’s current implementation, is useless, except for the entities employing it.


ESPN

VAR complaint of the weekend

Who knew that the biggest flaw in VAR -- or at least the way VAR is being implemented in England -- would be when it didn't get involved, as opposed to when it did? To pick just a couple of examples from the weekend (and there were more -- oh there were more), Manchester City and Tottenham were not awarded clear penalties even after they were checked, apparently because there wasn't enough evidence that they were clear and obvious mistakes, and thus the subjective decisions couldn't be corrected.

If these weren't clear and obvious, it's becoming evident that VAR is just someone drawing lines on a screen to decide infinitesimally marginal offside calls.

VAR is a mistake, a system that shouldn't have been brought in, but as it's here it should at least ensure as many on-field mistakes as possible are rectified. But if it won't overturn these decisions, clear to virtually everyone, then it's pointless.

Unless things change, we've essentially got the worst of both worlds: the game has been fundamentally altered and changed as a live spectacle without actually making decisions more accurate. Well done everyone. Well done.


Sky Sports

VAR implementation still an issue

There was some luck involved though. Handball decisions were the talk of the first fortnight of the season but over the weekend, it was another aspect of VAR's impact on penalty calls that came to the fore. Chelsea, Manchester City and Tottenham all had strong shouts turned down. The law might be clear but it is not obvious that it is leading to improved decisions.

Chelsea captain Cesar Azpilicueta took a kick to the knee from Norwich's Marco Stiepermann inside the box. City captain David Silva had his foot trodden on by Bournemouth's Jefferson Lerma. Then Spurs striker Harry Kane was impeded by Jamaal Lascelles, the Newcastle skipper diving into his path. Not once was a penalty given.

For subjective decisions, VAR deems that when there is not enough evidence to overturn the original call, it sticks with the on-field decision. Is this encouraging referees not to flag - leaving it instead to their colleagues at Stockley Park? The curious consequence of such a high threshold is that incidents most would regard as penalties are still being missed.