Var debate 2019/20

[give it to gordon]

I think that's the problem with VAR at the moment, it's being used to forensically dissect every goal to find a way to disallow it using a technicality but isn't being used to eradicate actual cheating.
In this format we'll definitely get shafted by it the most as we score the most goals but Littlewoods diving and the rags defensive technique of just grabbing attacking players will just go on as normal.
If VAR isn't being used to stop cheats then what is the actual point of it?

Think you have answered your own question it's to allow littlewoods diving and rags holding to carry on but to stop others from trying it !!

 

[Bozzie]

I thought I saw Oliver hold his hand to his ear when City players approached him. It looked like he was saying that VAR had looked at it.

So that's Oliver and at least one other member of PGMOL who, apparently, didn't think it was a foul on Rodri and yet every pundit, reporter, fan (of both sides) thought it was a clear penalty. PGMOL don't seem to like the concept of transparency and/or accountability but if you're asking fans to accept VAR then they need to be forced to adopt a more open approach. 54,000 people in The Etihad thought Jesus had scored a perfectly good goal and even when we left the stadium there was no definitive answer why it had been disallowed until people started getting the information via social media. That in itself can't be acceptable.

 

[LWashington]

The new law states that it's an offence if the player

"Gains possession/control of the ball after it has touched their arm and then creates a goal scoring opportunity."


In that case it would be funny if a defender touched it with his arm but it was deemed to be in a natural position. So the ref waves play on, then the defender hoofs it 60 yards downfield and the striker run onto it and scores. What happens next ? Stalemate ?

 

[Tricky_Trev]

I may have blue tinted glasses on here but watching other games yesterday and last weekend, I never felt that VAR was going to be used .It was there in the background to be used if an incident happened but in our two games I knew that VAR would be used ,just knew . I reckon VAR will not show up in the chelsea game later.

Exactly. And when our opponents score, you are not expecting VAR to check anything. The game seems to restart pretty quickly, almost as if they are trying to ‘lock-in’ the goal and move on. When we score, there’s a 3 minute inquisition.

 

[Kokonut1307]

VAR has been going for years in Italy and Germany - what is the general consensus of fans in those counties?

It is a farce in Serie A full of inconsistent calls. The Super Cup between Milan and Juventus was a great example.

 

[Tricky_Trev]

Give me some replays and I will quite easily find a reason to disallow the Moura goal. There will be a foul somewhere in the box that would have been zoomed in on if it were us. It would be wrong to do that, but this is what they do on our goals.

 

[Bigga]

I was going to read 40 pages but you know what, I can't be arsed, just like I am getting with football. I can't be arsed going to watch the likes of Oliver ignore blatant penalties and VAR not to tell him. The media have been saying all week that Tottenham had to stop City 'for the good of football'. They couldn't manage it so the officials stepped in. Absolutely bent and it is ruining the game.

All of you that support VAR can go and fuck yourselves.

FFS, stop being daft.

VAR can't work without the rules. If the rules are so stupid and rigid, that's the issue, not VAR.

You're conflating complaints.

 

[daztrueblue91]

I actually think that VAR will eventually be a good addition to the game so long as the laws of the game are sorted.

The problem for us seems to be that rather than bad decisions evening themselves out, we are getting doubly screwed with the technology.

Go back to Liverpool in the CL a few years ago. If VAR was in place then we would have qualified. There was at least a 3 offside goal swing in Liverpool’s favour over the tie.

Then VAR is implemented and it leads to us getting knocked out by Spurs due to a tight offside call.

Then the handball rule is changed and Gabby’s goal yesterday is ruled out which was far less of an offence than the Llorente goal last season.

What the first two games of this season has shown is that there needs to be greater clarity and consistency over VAR.

Why was the Zinchenko tackle on Lanzini checked on VAR last week but not the foul on Rodri?

Why are attackers penalised for accidental handball but not defenders?

Why did VAR use different frames when assessing the Jesus and Sterling goals against West Ham?

Also, until fans in the ground can hear and see the decision making process of the refs the system will be abused.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Many on here wanted it as well!
In typical bureaucratic fashion, what the authorities have managed to do is to take a fairly simple concept and ruin it with over zealousness.
Kyle Walker being 6 yards offside for Spurs, VAR is supposed to spot. Sterling last week? Don’t think so. Thierry Henry handball for France, VAR is supposed to spot that as well. The Wolves goal last week and Jesus yesterday (Llorente in the quarter final, for that matter)? Don’t think it’s for that either.
Also, if it takes longer than 10-20 seconds it cannot, by definition, be clear and obvious so benefit of the doubt should stay on the pitch. Referees call, if you like. As the life blood of the game is goals, a system that appears to be trying to find any reason at all to disallow them seems to have somewhat missed the point.

This is it absolutely.

Glaring mistakes such as our disallowed goal v the scousers, when it was Milner who kicked the ball, or his luducrous offside v West Ham; those kind of stinking mistakes are the ones people wanted eradicating along with diving & violent conduct.

The 'offside' goal Aguero scored v Swansea, is the kind of marginal thing which has happened for & against, for 100 years. Just get on with it & give the striker the advantage if unsure. V.a.r. should only come in, if he's blatantly offside & it's not seen, not for a few inches.

 

[BlueAnorak]

4 VAR decisions against us incorrect so far. 0 in our favour.
1. @Spurs CL A - Son goal Armpit++ offside - yet a goal given.
2. @Spurs CL H - Ball hit Spurs players hand at corner prior to goal - yet a goal was given even though CL games playing to new rules.
3. @West Ham A - Silva pass judged 5 frames after ball contact so Sterling offside by an armpit prior to Jesus goal.
4. @Spurs H - Lamela has arm wrapped around Rodri's neck. Possible pen not referred by ref to VAR.

 

[Newquayblue]

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, I go for mostly incompetence, mixed in with a cocktail of deep psychological bias, a desire for attention and devastatingly bad luck. What makes it even more exasperating for me is, the rules have been changed because of our major injustice AGAIN, and will be again however, we will never get our QFCL victory, or points we deserved, back. Astoundingly baffling how this type of scenario has recurred. I'll stop here because my thoughts are leading me toward conspiracy theories again. Very, very bizarre!

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

The problem is that VAR is an attempt to address the inability / incompetence of officials in decision making on the fine marginal decisions that occur in the game. However good the technology you still have these same flawed human beings watching the footage and making the final decision. The application of rules is still down to the same clowns, albeit they get the opportunity to make a more considered decision.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

4 VAR decisions against us incorrect so far. 0 in our favour.
1. @Spurs CL A - Son goal Armpit++ offside - yet a goal given.
2. @Spurs CL H - Ball hit Spurs players hand at corner prior to goal - yet a goal was given even though CL games playing to new rules.
3. @West Ham A - Silva pass judged 5 frames after ball contact so Sterling offside by an armpit prior to Jesus goal.
4. @Spurs H - Lamela has arm wrapped around Rodri's neck. Possible pen not referred by ref to VAR.

I don't think UEFA are on the same page with VAR - just look at the final chelsea pen last week where the dipper keeper was off his line.

 

[Newquayblue]

Just listened to SS, I agree the match going experience has been denigrated. (Btw, soz guys but I'm an armchair warrior these days).

 

[daztrueblue91]

4 VAR decisions against us incorrect so far. 0 in our favour.
1. @Spurs CL A - Son goal Armpit++ offside - yet a goal given.
2. @Spurs CL H - Ball hit Spurs players hand at corner prior to goal - yet a goal was given even though CL games playing to new rules.
3. @West Ham A - Silva pass judged 5 frames after ball contact so Sterling offside by an armpit prior to Jesus goal.
4. @Spurs H - Lamela has arm wrapped around Rodri's neck. Possible pen not referred by ref to VAR.

What about the Aguero penalty against Spurs and the retake of the penalty against West Ham?

 

[Neville Kneville]

What about the Aguero penalty against Spurs and the retake of the penalty against West Ham?

The retake was v.a.r.

Dean gave the pen (admittedly because he knew he had to, or v.a.r. would).

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

The problem is that VAR is an attempt to address the inability / incompetence of officials in decision making on the fine marginal decisions that occur in the game. However good the technology you still have these same flawed human beings watching the footage and making the final decision. The application of rules is still down to the same clowns, albeit they get the opportunity to make a more considered decision.

I think this emotive language, used by everyone connected with the game, is what’s got us where we are. You are 100% correct to ascribe flawed to human and, if we could all only accept that, VAR wouldn’t have been given the time of day. Did Bernardo deliberately shoot at Loris yesterday or did he make a mistake? Same goes for Eddie on their goals, Adrian for Liverpool and many other events in football. What footballers, managers and fans have done, especially since the advent of the PL, is to blame all the ills of the game on incompetent officials when, truth be told, football has been littered with countless mistakes, from everyone on the pitch, since the day it began. Mistakes are the essential being of football and, in seeking some impossible, error free purity, it’ll never be the same again. Which, when you think about it, is somewhat sad.
I suppose VAR will become the quoted example in the old adage of “being careful what you wish for”......

 

[daztrueblue91]

The retake was v.a.r.

Dean gave the pen (admittedly because he knew he had to, or v.a.r. would).

Exactly. The poster said we have had no VAR decisions in our favour.

 

[Cheer Up Peter Reid]

I agree with much of the sentiment expressed on here. It does feel like City's goals are scrutinised far more than others. The lack of transparency about what is being reviewed, by who and when does not help. Why can't they be fully transparent, flag when a review is happening, show the clips that are being looked at and let us hear the dialogue as to how they have made a decision. I would like to know if they even looked at the Rodri neck hold, and if they did what was the logic for determining there was no offence committed. Or what was their reasoning for penalising the Laporte handball. They have transparency in other sports so why not in football, without it there is no way I trust it.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Exactly. The poster said we have had no VAR decisions in our favour.

Yeah we've had one.

We had one last season too.