VAR Discussion Thread - 2023/24 | PL clubs to vote on whether to scrap VAR (pg413)

[BlueHammer85]

Do you think the match day experience is better now with VAR?

No real difference, I can't actually recall many incidences at the Olympic Stadium where VAR has caused many issues.

I do, and have always said I agree with those that when a goal is scored you can sometimes hold back celebrating as much as you know the dreaded VAR check will take place, especially when you think for instance there could be an offside - but equally I don't want my team being robbed by the opposition if they have scored a offside goal. Why should that be allowed to stand. If the downside is waiting a few moments for the correct verdict then i will stand by that.
If they still get it conclusively wrong then I'm as outraged as anyone else.

Would I get rid of VAR and go back to how it was? nope. never. I want it to continue to find ways to improve speed of decisions and fairness of outcome, however painful the journey might be.

 

[BamberBridgeBlue]

I’m not refusing to see but until I see proper proof of corruption I’m not going to call it. If City have proof then they should call them out on it until then it’s all conspiracy theories

What a pile of horseshit. You’re not gonna get proof one way or another. We’re all capable of researching a certain amount of information and you make a judgement from there. If you don’t believe it’s corrupt then fair enough but don’t hide behind proof because you and I will never get it. This is a forum and it’s about opinions. Mine are just as valid as yours.

 

[Phil1]

No real difference, I can't actually recall many incidences at the Olympic Stadium where VAR has caused many issues.

I do, and have always said I agree with those that when a goal is scored you can sometimes hold back celebrating as much as you know the dreaded VAR check will take place, especially when you think for instance there could be an offside - but equally I don't want my team being robbed by the opposition if they have scored a offside goal. Why should that be allowed to stand. If the downside is waiting a few moments for the correct verdict then i will stand by that.
If they still get it conclusively wrong then I'm as outraged as anyone else.

Would I get rid of VAR and go back to how it was? nope. never. I want it to continue to find ways to improve speed of decisions and fairness of outcome, however painful the journey might be.

Why though? Football isn’t meant to be perfect.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Why though? Football isn’t meant to be perfect.

because I'll never forget how bad the officiating was pre VAR and how often I walked out of Upton Park absolutely fuming over the refs decisions rather than the outcome of the match. There was times it would be a corner and ball gets whipped into the box, ref points to the spot. penalty. just like that. no idea why. go home watch Match Of The Day and it was over some 50/50 grappling - but the ref could just do that on a whim, same for clear dives being awarded and clear offsides being allowed to stand. None of that was 'entertaining' when it's against your team.

Now, of course some fans still face the same injustice even with VAR but for me I'd rather get a higher margin of calls correct even if it means a bit of delay in the match - if they can work on the speed of the outcome then that would make it much better also.
I'm never expecting Football to be perfect, there will always be controversy and decisions I don't agree with with or without VAR but as long as there is plans in place to implement it better than that's a good thing. IMO.

 

[metalblue]

No real difference, I can't actually recall many incidences at the Olympic Stadium where VAR has caused many issues.

I do, and have always said I agree with those that when a goal is scored you can sometimes hold back celebrating as much as you know the dreaded VAR check will take place, especially when you think for instance there could be an offside - but equally I don't want my team being robbed by the opposition if they have scored a offside goal. Why should that be allowed to stand. If the downside is waiting a few moments for the correct verdict then i will stand by that.
If they still get it conclusively wrong then I'm as outraged as anyone else.

Would I get rid of VAR and go back to how it was? nope. never. I want it to continue to find ways to improve speed of decisions and fairness of outcome, however painful the journey might be.

You’re missing the point a bit when I talk about the experience being in the ground but appreciate the reply.

You’re putting a lot of faith in VAR always being right which we know it isn’t. I think most of us would be quite happy with it if it didn’t re-referee the game. Our second against the dippers on Saturday being an example of that, the ref blows up for a foul and VAR could see enough in it to say not a clear and obvious error. In the stands we aren’t celebrating because we know the ref has blown for a foul. Do I think it was a foul having watched it back? No, but I accept the ref called it and it wasn’t clear and obvious. That, for me, is VAR working well. Rule out goals that are clearly offside, not 5mm offside if the lineman’s hasn’t flagged for it or award it if the player is 5mm onside if he has. That’ll take moments to check.

There are plenty of incidents where the game is being re-refereed because you can watch 30 replays of an incident, that’s destroying the game inside the stadium. And yes City have benefited from these.

VAR hasn’t fixed anything it’s just added another controversy for the armchair fans to talk about. Every week sky is re-refereeing the re-refereeing of VAR. This isn’t a problem unique to the PL, if every major league with it is having these same issues then something isn’t right.

I’m seriously thinking of not renewing next season because of it, few around me saying same. Sure me giving up suits City because they’ll sell my seat on a weekly basis to a tourist who will spend £££’s in the store. I’ll probably forget how much it pisses me off when I get my renewal email mind.

 

[metalblue]

because I'll never forget how bad the officiating was pre VAR and how often I walked out of Upton Park absolutely fuming over the refs decisions rather than the outcome of the match. There was times it would be a corner and ball gets whipped into the box, ref points to the spot. penalty. just like that. no idea why. go home watch Match Of The Day and it was over some 50/50 grappling - but the ref could just do that on a whim, same for clear dives being awarded and clear offsides being allowed to stand. None of that was 'entertaining' when it's against your team.

Now, of course some fans still face the same injustice even with VAR but for me I'd rather get a higher margin of calls correct even if it means a bit of delay in the match - if they can work on the speed of the outcome then that would make it much better also.
I'm never expecting Football to be perfect, there will always be controversy and decisions I don't agree with with or without VAR but as long as there is plans in place to implement it better than that's a good thing. IMO.

There isn’t plans to improve it, only to intervene in more decisions like throw ins and yellow cards. VAR gets some decisions horrendously wrong. How can that even be possible? Human error? Like we had before VAR?

 

[kaz7]

Clear and obvious manipulation going on , dont think they are fucked about being consistant , even within the same game, they can use var when it suits them , refs must have natural bias despite not one of them admitting they support a prem team, handy that when you think about it

They only send the ref to the monitor once in a hundred years when they should be giving him a second look more often

The whole application of it stinks and i cant believe any match goer enjoys celebrating a goal just to have it ruled out

 

[Phil1]

There isn’t plans to improve it, only to intervene in more decisions like throw ins and yellow cards. VAR gets some decisions horrendously wrong. How can that even be possible? Human error? Like we had before VAR?

Human error in real time is forgivable. Human error after watching an incident several times in slo-mo is definitely not.
Goal line technology and an upgraded way of calling offsides is all that’s required imo.
Everything else is just taking away from what the game is about.

 

[metalblue]

Human error in real time is forgivable. Human error after watching an incident several times in slo-mo is definitely not.
Goal line technology and an upgraded way of calling offsides is all that’s required imo.
Everything else is just taking away from what the game is about.

Agreed mate. It was never about the fractional offside decisions but the obvious ones where the player was offside to the naked eye and you didn’t need to draw lines on it to see.

 

[metalblue]

Clear and obvious manipulation going on , dont think they are fucked about being consistant , even within the same game, they can use var when it suits them , refs must have natural bias despite not one of them admitting they support a prem team, handy that when you think about it

They only send the ref to the monitor once in a hundred years when they should be giving him a second look more often

The whole application of it stinks and i cant believe any match goer enjoys celebrating a goal just to have it ruled out

The ref on Saturday was from Ashton. His bias was to go out of his way to not show any bias towards us.

 

[Barcon]

The ref on Saturday was from Ashton. His bias was to go out of his way to not show any bias towards us.

Rags and dippers get everywhere mate.

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

Did he mention the Wolves penalty, or was that one

Why though? Football isn’t meant to be perfect.

This is the crux of it really. And with lots of decisions it will never be perfect, only subjective. That’s why having one subjective arbiter (the ref) in charge of checking things is infinitely preferable to decision by committee. Give him some tech to help by all means but the current system is crap and isn’t working

 

[BlueHammer85]

. Give him some tech to help by all means but the current system is crap and isn’t working

They do though, they literally give him a screen to run over and check something from all angles. Let’s not forget they do get the correct outcome the vast majority of times - it doesn’t feel like it though because of the (justified) uproar when they don’t.

 

[kaz7]

The ref on Saturday was from Ashton. His bias was to go out of his way to not show any bias towards us.

Explains a lot

 

[Nellies left peg]

What a pile of horseshit. You’re not gonna get proof one way or another. We’re all capable of researching a certain amount of information and you make a judgement from there. If you don’t believe it’s corrupt then fair enough but don’t hide behind proof because you and I will never get it. This is a forum and it’s about opinions. Mine are just as valid as yours.

You can shout corruption as much as you like but that’s horse shit too and I’ve never dismissed your opinion so wind your neck in .ive never said it isn’t corrupt but have no proof specifically so if city have they should take action to bring it to the public domain

 

[Lovebitesandeveryfing]

You’re missing the point a bit when I talk about the experience being in the ground but appreciate the reply.

You’re putting a lot of faith in VAR always being right which we know it isn’t. I think most of us would be quite happy with it if it didn’t re-referee the game. Our second against the dippers on Saturday being an example of that, the ref blows up for a foul and VAR could see enough in it to say not a clear and obvious error. In the stands we aren’t celebrating because we know the ref has blown for a foul. Do I think it was a foul having watched it back? No, but I accept the ref called it and it wasn’t clear and obvious. That, for me, is VAR working well. Rule out goals that are clearly offside, not 5mm offside if the lineman’s hasn’t flagged for it or award it if the player is 5mm onside if he has. That’ll take moments to check.

There are plenty of incidents where the game is being re-refereed because you can watch 30 replays of an incident, that’s destroying the game inside the stadium. And yes City have benefited from these.

VAR hasn’t fixed anything it’s just added another controversy for the armchair fans to talk about. Every week sky is re-refereeing the re-refereeing of VAR. This isn’t a problem unique to the PL, if every major league with it is having these same issues then something isn’t right.

I’m seriously thinking of not renewing next season because of it, few around me saying same. Sure me giving up suits City because they’ll sell my seat on a weekly basis to a tourist who will spend £££’s in the store. I’ll probably forget how much it pisses me off when I get my renewal email mind.

Agree with everything here.

 

[sh249]

Human error in real time is forgivable. Human error after watching an incident several times in slo-mo is definitely not.
Goal line technology and an upgraded way of calling offsides is all that’s required imo.
Everything else is just taking away from what the game is about.

I think this is the nub of it. The match-going experience is football for me - living those moments, those emotions, good or bad. That’s far more essential to the game than whether decisions are right or wrong, just or unjust. So I disagree with the claim (peddled particularly by broadcasters and other vested interests) that better and more consistent decisions are all that matters, and that this justifies the incursion of technology in a way that strips something from the experience of being a fan in the stadium. I just don’t buy into that trade-off - quite aside from the question of whether VAR actually is delivering better, more consistent decisions.
Bigger picture-wise, I’m also dubious about the direction of travel. As VAR gets ever more embedded into the game, it’s probably only a matter of time before the laws start to be re-written to fit what the technology can do / show (if this isn’t already happening). And I don’t like how it plays into this growing (horribly fucking needy) sense that to be on the wrong end of a poor, or even dubious, decision constitutes an unacceptable affront, rather than just being part of the game. Moving forward, I fully expect more clubs to be demanding replays, or issuing statements whenever they feel hard done by.
I completely accept that others might see all this otherwise, and think that the trade-off is worth it. But I don’t, hence why I wish it was binned (except goal line technology). And maybe some kind of assistance on offsides, but only with a substantial margin of difference - the razor-thin, toe-on or toe-off, pseudo-forensic decisions are a prime example of an issue created by the introduction of VAR, which is now held up to legitimise its use. No semi-sensible person was complaining about decisions that tight previously.

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

This is the crux of it really. And with lots of decisions it will never be perfect, only subjective. That’s why having one subjective arbiter (the ref) in charge of checking things is infinitely preferable to decision by committee. Give him some tech to help by all means but the current system is crap and isn’t working

This all day. This is the answer they will EVENTUALLY come to. 1 person making subjective calls.

 

[stonerblue]

because I'll never forget how bad the officiating was pre VAR and how often I walked out of Upton Park absolutely fuming over the refs decisions rather than the outcome of the match. There was times it would be a corner and ball gets whipped into the box, ref points to the spot. penalty. just like that. no idea why. go home watch Match Of The Day and it was over some 50/50 grappling - but the ref could just do that on a whim, same for clear dives being awarded and clear offsides being allowed to stand. None of that was 'entertaining' when it's against your team.

Now, of course some fans still face the same injustice even with VAR but for me I'd rather get a higher margin of calls correct even if it means a bit of delay in the match - if they can work on the speed of the outcome then that would make it much better also.
I'm never expecting Football to be perfect, there will always be controversy and decisions I don't agree with with or without VAR but as long as there is plans in place to implement it better than that's a good thing. IMO.

No pain no gain.
The perfect world you're after will never exist on a football pitch.

 

[BlueHammer85]

No pain no gain.
The perfect world you're after will never exist on a football pitch.

I'm never expecting Football to be perfect, there will always be controversy and decisions I don't agree with with or without VAR but as long as there is plans in place to implement it better than that's a good thing. IMO.