VAR Discussion Thread - 2023/24 | PL clubs to vote on whether to scrap VAR (pg413)

[BlueHammer85]

If being an idiot is defined by simply having a different opinion to other people on this site then you sir would be everybody's idiot.

unfortunately it's shite like this what the thread has become.

Why's it so hard to debate the pro's and cons of VAR ? Just because some like me would rather refs get some tech help or a chance to see something they missed doesn't mean I'm a WUM or part of 'the agenda'

I could go back and quote all the negatives I find about VAR which I've stated time after time - I'm also equally frustrated when I see incorrect decisions given even with the use of VAR.

Yet some just feel the need to vent constantly, unable to be rational at all - perhaps to let of some personal angst they have and just love to moan.

 

[Gazza]

unfortunately it's shite like this what the thread has become.

Why's it so hard to debate the pro's and cons of VAR ? Just because some like me would rather refs get some tech help or a chance to see something they missed doesn't mean I'm a WUM or part of 'the agenda'

I could go back and quote all the negatives I find about VAR which I've stated time after time - I'm also equally frustrated when I see incorrect decisions given even with the use of VAR.

Yet some just feel the need to vent constantly, unable to be rational at all - perhaps to let of some personal angst they have and just love to moan.

No, this thread is going around in circles, nothing new is ever added to the debate as all the angles were covered in the first five pages and then repeated in the next ten.
VAR is shit, it's ruined the spontaneity of the game and tried to reduce an analogue set of laws into a digital format.
Stop flogging a dead horse and go and haunt another thread for a bit.

 

[BlueHammer85]

No, this thread is going around in circles, nothing new is ever added to the debate as all the angles were covered in the first five pages and then repeated in the next ten.
VAR is shit, it's ruined the spontaneity of the game and tried to reduce an analogue set of laws into a digital format.
Stop flogging a dead horse and go and haunt another thread for a bit.

The irony of ‘flogging a dead horse’ when all you want to read is page after page of people saying they think VAR is shit and it’s ruining the game.

 

[Wanderingwolf]

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

I think the red card in the Celtic game last night highlights an issue with VAR which I’ve seen a few times but is rarely talked about in detail. I’m not saying it definitely wasn’t a red, it was one of those orange card challenges that you either get or you don’t.

Not talking about hand balls or offsides… but when adjudicating for red card tackles, in my opinion, the referee should not be allowed to freeze frame the challenge. You simply can’t make a decision like that based on one frame of footage, you should have to see the full motion - preferably at full speed. And as VAR is a procedural process they absolutely need to have a precise checklist of things they’re considering like the TMO in rugby. And the comms as they go through that checklist should be broadcast. That is the only way we’re going to get anything resembling consistency.

There’s a lot of procedural issues with VAR. It feels like any of us could instantly suggest about 10 things that would improve it. The obstinance of the authorities to change even the smallest thing is incredibly frustrating, the VAR process has hardly been adapted at all since its introduction and we’re now in year 6 of its implementation - which for me is just unacceptable. FIFA have just assumed they got it perfect first time and that is what is killing its reputation as a useful tool.

It needs to be improved and adapted, no system like this works perfectly first time.

 

[BlueHammer85]

I think the red card in the Celtic game last night highlights an issue with VAR which I’ve seen a few times but is rarely talked about in detail. I’m not saying it definitely wasn’t a red, it was one of those orange card challenges that you either get or you don’t.

Not talking about hand balls or offsides… but when adjudicating for red card tackles, in my opinion, the referee should not be allowed to freeze frame the challenge. You simply can’t make a decision like that based on one frame of footage, you should have to see the full motion - preferably at full speed. And as VAR is a procedural process they absolutely need to have a precise checklist of things they’re considering like the TMO in rugby. And the comms as they go through that checklist should be broadcast. That is the only way we’re going to get anything resembling consistency.

There’s a lot of procedural issues with VAR. It feels like any of us could instantly suggest about 10 things that would improve it. The obstinance of the authorities to change even the smallest thing is incredibly frustrating, the VAR process has hardly been adapted at all since its introduction and we’re now in year 6 of its implementation - which for me is just unacceptable. FIFA have just assumed they got it perfect first time and that is what is killing its reputation as a useful tool.

It needs to be improved and adapted, no system like this works perfectly first time.

Not seen the incident, but are you saying the ref only saw a replay of one freeze frame ?

I’m pretty sure every red I’ve seen it shows the VAR room going through the whole footage constant times and different angles and the odd freeze frame

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

Not seen the incident, but are you saying the ref only saw a replay of one freeze frame ?

I’m pretty sure every red I’ve seen it shows the VAR room going through the whole footage constant times and different angles and the odd freeze frame

Yes that’s exactly what happened here, the problem was that if you watch the video in full the challenge is fairly limp, the player tries to pull out and the top of his studs catches the inside of the players calf.

The ref watched it a few times - it looked inconclusive - so he slowed it right down frame by frame and froze it on one particular frame from a bad angle that makes it look like a leg-breaking studs on shin challenge… which it wasn’t. He paused on that for a while before making his final decision but it’s quite clear that single screenshot made the decision for him.

I’m saying (and realise this is only my opinion) they shouldn’t be allowed to freeze frame it like that, because you are deliberately removing the context of the challenge which is integral to the decision. What I’m trying to say is there is absolutely no utility in freezing the video for red card tackles, the only purpose it serves is to narrow the scope of information the referee is actively reviewing, creating inaccurate decisions. It might make decisions easier for officials because they can just find the most incriminating frame and go off that, but it doesn’t make the decisions better.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Yes that’s exactly what happened here, the problem was that if you watch the video in full the challenge is fairly limp, the player tries to pull out and the top of his studs catches the inside of the players calf.

The ref watched it a few times - it looked inconclusive - so he slowed it right down frame by frame and froze it on one particular frame from a bad angle that makes it look like a leg-breaking studs on shin challenge… which it wasn’t. He paused on that for a while before making his final decision but it’s quite clear that single screenshot made the decision for him.

I’m saying (and realise this is only my opinion) they shouldn’t be allowed to freeze frame it like that, because you are deliberately removing the context of the challenge which is integral to the decision. What I’m trying to say is there is absolutely no utility in freezing the video for red card tackles, the only purpose it serves is to narrow the scope of information the referee is actively reviewing, creating inaccurate decisions. It might make decisions easier for officials because they can just find the most incriminating frame and go off that, but it doesn’t make the decisions better.

Yep all fair points.

I suppose also a freeze frame could determine if there was studs or how high the foot landed - however , an official should be taking into the account that a freeze frame creates an inaccurate narrative.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

View attachment 98001

Wolves have had some shitty VAR decisions, but let us all understand that it's not the V or the A that's at fault with this kind of blatant nonsense, it's the R, it's the referee. Whoever decided that the right hand pic was not a penalty needs to be drummed out of the game, with his cranium used as the drum. I think that pic just fits the notion that refs do not want to make a judgement that is to the detriment of certain teams.

Somebody told me last night that we have the Alty Tit on Sunday. After the fiasco of the City v CFC game some seasons back he should have been sent packing and not even been allowed into to a ground to watch a City game.

 

[mancboy]

Easy, Rashford v Forest (I think). The contact came because of the dive.

szoboslai against bournemouth was a clear a dive as you will ever see