VAR Discussion Thread - 2023/24 | PL clubs to vote on whether to scrap VAR (pg413)

[TinFoilHat]

How did that linesman miss that handball for their disallowed goal.

Arsenal were allowed to score when the same thing happened in the build up.

 

[abu13]

That handball was a perfect example of why we need to keep VAR, it is the way that it gets used currently where the problem lies.
Can you imagine how easy it would have been for the officials to have given that goal today, and what could have happened then.

 

[mancboy]

Today in microchasm showed that it isnt the technology but that the idiots using it are allowed to use it incorrectly with no accountability.

 

[TheBeautifulGame]

How did that linesman miss that handball for their disallowed goal.

It's got to due with VAR. Linos have been instructed to do nothing when they see anything.

 

[TheBeautifulGame]

Arsenal were allowed to score when the same thing happened in the build up.

Not the same thing at all. On the West Ham disallowed goal, he had the arm extended, it was inside the box, leading directly to the goal, and it hit lower on the arm near the wrist. He pretty much punched the ball in with his hand there. You can't compare that scenario to what happened in the Arsenal Everton match.

In the Arsenal Everton match, the arm was not extended, he actually tucked the arm into his body to not make himself bigger, it hit off the upper arm between the elbow and the shoulder while the arm was tucked into his body. Not only that but the contact with the tucked upper arm, didn't actually score the goal like with the West Ham punch-in. It was an inadvertent deflection. That goal in my view, was correctly allowed, as it was consistent with the original handball rule, while the West Ham goal was correctly disallowed. Sometimes VAR works, but it's also impossible to know if the West Ham punch-in would have been seen and ruled a handball on the pitch in a VAR-less world. Since VAR has been introduced, there's a lot of confirmation bias that occurs to give the impression that VAR ie needed. It's designed to create situations where the Linos or the referees fail to "see" handballs, but in reality they've just been instructed not to do anything, and wait for VAR.

Without VAR, the Linos and referees know that they can't rely on VAR anymore, and need to start taking action again. Every time there's a clear handball in the box they make the argument that the ref would have missed it like the infamous Henry handball, even when both the referee are in far better position to see the handball than they were with the infamous Henry handball. In essence, VAR is largely a rouse, they're instructed to pretend to not see certain actions like clear handballs in order to justify the need for VAR to help them.

 

[TheBeautifulGame]

That handball was a perfect example of why we need to keep VAR, it is the way that it gets used currently where the problem lies.
Can you imagine how easy it would have been for the officials to have given that goal today, and what could have happened then.

If that goal was given and there was no VAR, it would indeed be a howler. But chances are they see that in real-time, with the arm extended, coming off a set piece corner, where the referee is in prime position to see that. Typically the chances of the referee missing a handball off a corner is minimal, compared to handballs following free kicks from farther out, or in the run of play, when the referee is sprinting down late to arrive to the incident, and having his view blocked by other players. When there's a corner, typically the referee positions himself to give himself a good angle to see any potential handballs without having his view blocked.

If VAR was limited to only helping referees see handballs in the box, particularly after goals are scored after deflecting off arms extended, I think we could live with that. The problem with VAR is it isn't only limited in scope of ideal situations for beneficial intervention. You take an example like that, and use it to make an argument for why VAR is needed. But in reality chances are that extended arm punch-in by West Ham gets seen by either the referee or the Lino in real-time if VAR didn't exist.

There's numerous ways in which you could ensure that handballs like that don't get missed, without having to justify the entire VAR monstrosity as it currently exists, which causes a host of other problems, all to ensure that we catch something that 9 times out of 10 is going to be seen in real-time in a VAR less world.

If you wanted to ensure all handballs in the box directly leading to goals are seen, you could position an extra official behind each goal to assist the ref, to give him another set of eyes in real-time, or you could limit video reviewing of handballs to goals scored from potential handballs, rather than possible handballs in the buildup. There's far better solutions to limit the scope of VAR to correcting howlers without all the other negative consequences of the system.

 

[Stephen230]

Hyperbole aside, City are voting to keep VAR.

A few articles I’ve read suggest it’s highly unlikely to even get as far a vote.

Wolves’ intention was probably just to get it on the agenda and discussed. Rather than a serious attempt to have it scrapped.

 

[Stephen230]

Arsenal were allowed to score when the same thing happened in the build up.

It wasn’t the same thing, as Jesus wasn’t the goalscorer, so he would have needed to deliberately handle the ball for it to be an offence.

While there’s no intent needed for the West Ham goalscorer to commit an offence. Just evidence that it’s touched his hand/ arm.

 

[SebastianBlue]

It wasn’t the same thing, as Jesus wasn’t the goalscorer, so he would have needed to deliberately handle the ball for it to be an offence.

While there’s no intent needed for the West Ham goalscorer to commit an offence. Just evidence that it’s touched his hand/ arm.

I think this video shows the frustration with VAR is largely the inconsistency with application of the rules by the referees and VARs, and the failure of the league and PGMOL to acknowledge—and make changes to mitigate—the consistent errors, variation of outcomes, and/or flaws with the technology.

Gallagher gives his “I can understand why the two decisions were different” defence of two very similar handball incidents involving VAR leading to two very different outcomes.

Ref Watch: Should Kai Havertz's winner against Everton have stood?

The Ref Watch team have their say on Kai Havertzs winner against Everton and whether it should have counted following a possible handball from Gabriel Jesus in the build-up.

www.skysports.com

Some fans would always be unhappy, I freely admit that, but I do believe the anti-VAR fervour would be much more isolate if fans could see them actually trying to substantively improve the system and processes, rather than roll out initiatives merely meant to gaslight fans and legitimise what already is.

 

[Gray]

I think this video shows the frustration with VAR is largely the inconsistency with application of the rules by the referees and VARs, and the failure of the league and PGMOL to acknowledge—and make changes to mitigate—the consistent errors, variation of outcomes, and/or flaws with the technology.

Gallagher gives his “I can understand why the two decisions were different” defence of two very similar handball incidents involving VAR leading to two very different outcomes.

Ref Watch: Should Kai Havertz's winner against Everton have stood?

The Ref Watch team have their say on Kai Havertzs winner against Everton and whether it should have counted following a possible handball from Gabriel Jesus in the build-up.

www.skysports.com

Some fans would always be unhappy, I freely admit that, but I do believe the anti-VAR fervour would be much more isolate if fans could see them actually trying to substantively improve the system and processes, rather than roll out initiatives merely meant to gaslight fans and legitimise what already is.

You can see from that video he deliberately knocked the ball past the Everton player with his arm, Oliver is a twat. Thank goodness it did not have any effect on the outcome of the Premier League.