VAR (PL introduction 2019)

When I first heard VAR was coming in I was all for it - cut out the mistakes and all that...

But now i'm not so sure... according to the FA the VAR is to be used:

"Video evidence can only be used to decide whether a goal should stand, whether a player deserves a straight red card, whether a penalty should be awarded and in cases of mistaken identity."

The 1st one is highly dubious - offside's are the first thing that spring to mind... What happens if a player punts the ball forward (over the back 4) and the forward is through on goal - just as the forward goes to shoot the lino put's his flag up and the ref blows? The striker will still shoot anyway (because they do) and the ball ends up in the back of the net... VAR may well prove it wasn't offside if used (would it even be used for this and if not then what's the point of VAR?) the goalie will claim he saw the flag / heard the whistle and didn't try to save it... a total mess
 
No system can be perfect... but most things can usually be improved.

If there are a few moans and teething troubles about loss of enjoyment/maintaining game flow/new 'what ifs', (typically symptomatic of resistance to change) they seem to be much less of an issue compared to the rubbish and in some cases critical and serious mistakes that VAR has been brought in to fix.

You can normally tell which are the most important aspects to people in the way that the grievances against them are aired...

A moany whinge every now and then backed with relatively unsubstantiated opinion...

...versus animalistic teeth-gnashing outcry that screams injustice and can often continue to escalate into crusade-level hatred?
 
BlueRain said:
When I first heard VAR was coming in I was all for it - cut out the mistakes and all that...

But now i'm not so sure... according to the FA the VAR is to be used:

"Video evidence can only be used to decide whether a goal should stand, whether a player deserves a straight red card, whether a penalty should be awarded and in cases of mistaken identity."

The 1st one is highly dubious - offside's are the first thing that spring to mind... What happens if a player punts the ball forward (over the back 4) and the forward is through on goal - just as the forward goes to shoot the lino put's his flag up and the ref blows? The striker will still shoot anyway (because they do) and the ball ends up in the back of the net... VAR may well prove it wasn't offside if used (would it even be used for this and if not then what's the point of VAR?) the goalie will claim he saw the flag / heard the whistle and didn't try to save it... a total mess
Click to expand...

Simple solution here though is for the goalie and defence to play on whatever the case in the knowledge it will be looked at when the passage of play is over. Under the current rules, we usually see everyone play on anyway when it's a really close call and they look for the flag after the event.
 
geoff clipp said:
Simple solution here though is for the goalie and defence to play on whatever the case in the knowledge it will be looked at when the passage of play is over. Under the current rules, we usually see everyone play on anyway when it's a really close call and they look for the flag after the event.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure ignoring the ref's whistle and playing on is the "simple solution" though??

Either - the lino flags and the ref blows - and that's it (no VAR allowed) or lino's don't flag for offsides anymore or the lino flags and the ref ignores it...

The way I see it now is that VAR is flawed and cannot work in real time situations - so either don't bother OR go all out with VAR and move the ref from the pitch to a nice warm booth with video screens and let him ref from there...
 
greasedupdeafguy said:
No im not just proving that it makes the game fuck all fair. For example, how would it be fair that say united could be awarded a penalty through var when they only got that penalty through fouling a player in the build up.
Click to expand...

If it was in the build-up i.e same phase. It would be pulled back
 
Hart of the Matter said:
Not sure what planet you are on. How does that link support VAR. The bad 'career ending' tackle still happened despite VAR and the second one is a dubious red. If VAR is meant to pick up on obvious mistakes then it has been wrongly used here, especially the second foul. VAR is just another way for media companies and refs to manipulate games. They will chose what to review and what not to review...
Click to expand...

The planet is called Earth you might have heard of it.

Did you read the past posts by any chance? the poster said VAR was upsetting managers and posted this as evidence. The bad career ending tackle happened and only received a yellow by the ref the VAR overruled him and gave him a deserved red instead therefore VAR worked unless you are suggesting it didn't for some reason no one else can see. For the second challenge I've seen them given so the best thing to do is not go in to take players out just in case you get a red as it's always fine line stuff.

The link isn't supposed to support VAR it was to show why the manager was upset with it when in fact it was his own dirty players that he should be angry with. So basically proving that the original post criticising VAR was said in the heat of the moment by mistake.
 
greasedupdeafguy said:
You've still not answered the point about what happens if a goal is scored and there is a foul 5 minutes before in the build up. Do you want the play to be brought back? Also every single incident affects the outcome of a game so to obtain “justice” you need to check EVERY tackle, free kick, pen, hand ball, corner/GK and throw in? How do you know which one(s) will be crucial? Why single some out?

And you can disagree all you want but it does ruin the flow of the game. Theres been matches ive watched in Serie a this season where the game has stopped four or five minutes to review a debatable penalty decision. Not all decisions are black and white.

All you have to do is go on twitter and type in VAR during a Serie A or Bundasliga match to see what fans think of it. Don't watch the Portuguese league or A-League but Ive not heard many people say good things about it there either. Seems to be a pattern emerging here......
Click to expand...


I've answered this before. Scenarios like this are no excuse not to bring it in and will get sorted over the years with a bit of tweaking. Similarly with the flow if the game. It's already reduced to 20 second stoppages in Serie A and has only increase the game time by 1 minute and this will be improved dramatically over the next few years.
 
BerkshireBlue said:
I've answered this before. Scenarios like this are no excuse not to bring it in and will get sorted over the years with a bit of tweaking. Similarly with the flow if the game. It's already reduced to 20 second stoppages in Serie A and has only increase the game time by 1 minute and this will be improved dramatically over the next few years.
Click to expand...
Thats bollocks, only have to watch one serie a game to know that.

And why is it not an excuse? I thought you wanted to make the game fair? Why usr var for some decisions and not others?

As i said everywheres its been introduced fans, players and managers hate it.
 
greasedupdeafguy said:
Thats bollocks, only have to watch one serie a game to know that.

And why is it not an excuse? I thought you wanted to make the game fair? Why usr var for some decisions and not others?

As i said everywheres its been introduced fans, players and managers hate it.
Click to expand...

It's not bollocks the stat was in one of the links I provided

It's not an excuse because the what if scenarios will be fixed over time

you haven't provided any evidence to support that players, managers or fans hate it.
 
BerkshireBlue said:
It's not bollocks the stat was in one of the links I provided

It's not an excuse because the what if scenarios will be fixed over time

you haven't provided any evidence to support that players, managers or fans hate it.
Click to expand...
Just by watching what a farce matches become and you will understand.
Do you honestly think its popular in the a-league?

And i dont see how the ‘what if’ scenerios will be fixed over time. The free flowing nature of football just makes it impossible.
 
BerkshireBlue said:
It's not bollocks the stat was in one of the links I provided

It's not an excuse because the what if scenarios will be fixed over time

you haven't provided any evidence to support that players, managers or fans hate it.
Click to expand...
https://t.co/InkiTf67ST
Found this is a good article which pretty sums up my thoughts

It simply doesnt make football fair unless you use it for every decision.
 
BlueRain said:
When I first heard VAR was coming in I was all for it - cut out the mistakes and all that...

But now i'm not so sure... according to the FA the VAR is to be used:

"Video evidence can only be used to decide whether a goal should stand, whether a player deserves a straight red card, whether a penalty should be awarded and in cases of mistaken identity."

The 1st one is highly dubious - offside's are the first thing that spring to mind... What happens if a player punts the ball forward (over the back 4) and the forward is through on goal - just as the forward goes to shoot the lino put's his flag up and the ref blows? The striker will still shoot anyway (because they do) and the ball ends up in the back of the net... VAR may well prove it wasn't offside if used (would it even be used for this and if not then what's the point of VAR?) the goalie will claim he saw the flag / heard the whistle and didn't try to save it... a total mess
Click to expand...


It is very interesting and we would be stupid not to try technology as in the ground now the fans know for certain an incorrect decision before refs etc.

It should be able to stop an incorrect goal for offside, an obvious dive, a red card that would be recinded but the system will be flawed.

Howver, I can't get my head around the gain to the attacking team with this regards penalties, onsides as you say etc. When a goal is scored, yes check everything is ok etc. I get that and it works to a point and the defending side may well benefit but things like a foul on the halfway in the build up would not be right to disallow a goal? A clearly offside or they score with there hand etc. but fans will want a clear cut off point as to have no bias being accussed.

As I say where is the gain an attacker gets brought down in the box and the ball goes out for a corner, yes you can have a look. Same scenario but instead of a corner it stays in play and the other team go up and score, what then goal ruled out and penalty (again seems harsh). If striker was incorrectly flagged as offside and running clean through it is wrong, so what is the advice to the lino not to raise the flag unless 100% certain. Then where does that end they don't flag and are offside and the ball goes out for a throw in no goal so no review and then they score from the throw in. That seems wrong so linesman/ women have to do what they do normally and this is a back up, so we are back to a striker running clean through and pulled back incorrectly.

I feel I could highlight so many grey areas a goal scored from a corner, on review the player scored committed a foul but another player from the attacking team is also clearly being fouled.

Going to take a long time for people to get used to it and in the meantime it will cause more issues. It should get things better in the long run, but it will not get things right all the time and I think fans will struggle with accepting a different opinion from one VAR to another as they will happen.
 
Fuzzy80 said:
It is very interesting and we would be stupid not to try technology as in the ground now the fans know for certain an incorrect decision before refs etc.

It should be able to stop an incorrect goal for offside, an obvious dive, a red card that would be recinded but the system will be flawed.

Howver, I can't get my head around the gain to the attacking team with this regards penalties, onsides as you say etc. When a goal is scored, yes check everything is ok etc. I get that and it works to a point and the defending side may well benefit but things like a foul on the halfway in the build up would not be right to disallow a goal? A clearly offside or they score with there hand etc. but fans will want a clear cut off point as to have no bias being accussed.

As I say where is the gain an attacker gets brought down in the box and the ball goes out for a corner, yes you can have a look. Same scenario but instead of a corner it stays in play and the other team go up and score, what then goal ruled out and penalty (again seems harsh). If striker was incorrectly flagged as offside and running clean through it is wrong, so what is the advice to the lino not to raise the flag unless 100% certain. Then where does that end they don't flag and are offside and the ball goes out for a throw in no goal so no review and then they score from the throw in. That seems wrong so linesman/ women have to do what they do normally and this is a back up, so we are back to a striker running clean through and pulled back incorrectly.

I feel I could highlight so many grey areas a goal scored from a corner, on review the player scored committed a foul but another player from the attacking team is also clearly being fouled.

Going to take a long time for people to get used to it and in the meantime it will cause more issues. It should get things better in the long run, but it will not get things right all the time and I think fans will struggle with accepting a different opinion from one VAR to another as they will happen.
Click to expand...
Brilliant post mate

There are so many gray areas with var. Its shit when refs make crap decisions but I would prefer that than dramatically changing the way football is played at the top level. And VAR wont make the the game fair for the reasons you describe.
 
blueinsa said:
For VAR to work it will require complete honesty from all the officials in so much of holding hands up in real time and saying yes, i've made a mistake there and will change my decision.

Sadly i dont think we will get that and instead it will be used to try and vindicate their mistakes if you want to be so kind as to call them mistakes in the first place and rather than help the game it will actually make things worse.

Hopefully i'm wrong but i'm sorry, i have zero faith in PiGMOL.
Click to expand...

I attended a workshop on VAR last summer at the FSF annual summit at St.George's Park. Former ref Neale Barry was heading it up and when the question was asked regarding a referee refusing to overturn a blatantly wrong decision flagged up by VAR he was adamant that any ref refusing to change his decision would be finished. So, for instance, let's take a hypothetical situaion: A certain, cough cough, Altrincham fan from Wythenshawe is appointed referee for City v Chelsea. In the first half, Sergio Aguero is fouled by last man David Luiz and the referee looks like he is going to blow up for the foul and issue Luiz with a red card. However, he then mysteriously decides to play on, so VAR asks said referee to review his decision but instead of admitting he's got it horribly wrong and issuing Luiz with a red card for denying Aguero a clear goalscoring opportunity, he insists he got it right in the first place and his original decision stands.

According to Neale Barry, if Taylor was to go down that route then he would be sacked regardless of how bent we think PGMOL are.
 
Last edited:
Has the Alti fan refused VAR FOR OUR cup Tie?

EFL said both semis and the final would use it, now it's just the chavs semi and final.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top