VAR thread 2022/23

[Alan Harper's Tash]

You seem to be continually arguing that VAR is never used to attempt to manipulate match outcomes.

Are am I misunderstanding your argument?

I’m suggesting that there is no conclusive proof that it is.

 

[halfcenturyup]

You could try asking those debating it, rather than trying to stop debate about it?

Naah, I think @SebastianBlue is clearly and obviously right on the opportunity for manipulation in the way VAR is implemented and the reluctance to address it, and I think you are being disingenuous for the sake of debate. I don't have a problem showing I agree with him without entering into a debate that is going nowhere.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Naah, I think @SebastianBlue is clearly and obviously right on the opportunity for manipulation in the way VAR is implemented and the reluctance to address it, and I think you are being disingenuous for the sake of debate. I don't have a problem showing I agree with him without entering into a debate that is going nowhere.

Where does that get us?

A system can be manipulated.

Can it be proved that it is? No.

 

[SebastianBlue]

I’m suggesting that there is no conclusive proof that it is.

That is the case with anything debated by individuals that do not have access to the data and accounts that are required to “prove” or “disprove” something.

As I said in an earlier post, none of us in this debate can prove or disprove conclusively what we are arguing at this time (because we literally can’t), so it should be binned off as a debate point.

However, the very reason we can’t lends more to my stance than yours (i.e. a governing organisation is intentionally making it difficult to audit the system we are debating—that’s not something that is done when everything is above board).

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

That is the case with anything debated by individuals that do not have access to the data and accounts that are required to “prove” or “disprove” something.

As I said in an earlier post, none of us in this debate can prove or disprove conclusively what we are arguing at this time (because we literally can’t), so it should be binned off as a debate point.

However, the very reason we can’t lends more to my stance than yours (i.e. a governing organisation is intentionally making it difficult to audit the system we are debating—that’s not something that is done when everything is above board).

The reason they make it difficult is the FA’s/PGMOL’s need to protect referees and their decisions far more than they need to, not to make sure they can still be corrupt.

Ultimately, we all want VAR to work better. Especially in communication. Even if people disagree with a decision, if they had the full reasoning for why they‘ve come to their decision, they would be more likely to accept it.

 

[SebastianBlue]

The reason they make it difficult is the FA’s/PGMOL’s need to protect referees and their decisions far more than they need to, not to make sure they can still be corrupt.

Ultimately, we all want VAR to work better. Especially in communication. Even if people disagree with a decision, if they had the full reasoning for why they‘ve come to their decision, they would be more likely to accept it.

I am not sure how making VAR more opaque in completely unnecessary ways could be anything other than shielding it from scrutiny of incompetence and/or corruption (the former becoming the latter eventually if it is not addressed).

Or how showing the way in which decisions are made and providing the margins of error inherent in the systems being used would bring harm to officials (unless, again, it shows incompetence and/or corruption).

Are you sure you are not Dermot Gallagher in disguise? ;-)

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

I am not sure how making VAR more opaque in completely unnecessary ways could be anything other than shielding it from scrutiny of incompetence and/or corruption (the former becoming the latter eventually if it is not addressed).

Or how showing the way in which decisions are made and providing the margins of error inherent in the systems being used would bring harm to officials (unless, again, it shows incompetence and/or corruption).

Are you sure you are not Dermot Gallagher in disguise? ;-)

Maybe that’s the issue. You simply believe it must be corrupt, whereas I don’t as of yet.

 

[blue by birth]

To save all the fucking about on here about whether var is bent or not..
Why don't we have a poll to see how bluemoon members are in favour off var and how many are against it.
I was all for it until I have seen how it operates..
I really don't think it's fit for purpose or should I say the fuckers in charge of using it aren't fit for purpose.

 

[moomba]

I was all for video assistance until a commentator (can't remember who) said that Jesus Navas was in the penalty area and got fouled, but it was brave of the ref not to give a penalty.

This was before VAR came in, but I knew then the same inconsistencies and biases would still apply.

I think it's worse than what I feared though.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

I’ll stay away for a few days so posters can post their wrath in peace.

Have fun!