VAR thread 2022/23

[BlueHammer85]

No not everyone would be happy but we would know their thinking and how they came to it.

I’m not against it for sure

 

[SebastianBlue]

And round we go. I haven’t missed them, they don’t prove corruption to me. (However many times you thpe them out)

Your simple example doesn’t work. It’s not corruption.

I do think it’s difficult for “someone like you” to believe all that you post, yet waste many hours each week watching a “corrupt” sport and even more hours describing in minute detail just how “corrupt” it is.

Thats more baffling to me.

Why ask questions if you are only going to dismiss the answers?

That is what baffles me.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Because I love the club that I have been supporting since I was 6. And I love football more generally (the tactics, the strategy, the personalities, the pageantry), and I don’t have much else I am able to do these days, unfortunately.

And perhaps, in all of my cynicism, I hold out hope these problems can be fixed and football can be diverted from the path toward the hybrid MLS and WWE-esque “entertainment” it is currently on.

Once more, even with my limited capabilities these days, I can somehow help with that effort, whilst I still have my mental faculties, at least.

I’m sorry you are in the grief cycle you are in.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Why ask questions if you are only going to dismiss the answers?

That is what baffles me.

They aren’t facts though. You believe they are, but they are on the balance of probability.

And sewage.

 

[bondsman]

I’m not against this

But how about we heard yesterday

VAR - we believe there might have been a foul on Mendy to the build up to the goal
Ref - Let me have a double check
Ref - oh yeh, I can now see Bowen left a foot on him ‘

…. Would this satisfy ? Would everyone be fine with hearing the explanations ? I really think it would probably cause more outrage. But as I say, I’m for more transparency

But that would highlight a clear lie and the official funding a reason to rule the goal out. Also with the Newcastle goal how can anyone fail to see that as incompetent at best or bent at worst. You’re refusal to acknowledge the continued failure of the system, and there has to be people in that system, that’s why it cannot irradiate errors and is therefore pointless, is really irrational.

 

[SebastianBlue]

I’m sorry you are in the grief cycle you are in.

There is no grief. I have—though it took a few years—accepted what is happening to me now.

But I don’t have to accept what is happening to the PL. And suggesting that the best course of action would be to simply stop watching, given what we are debating, is very strange.

I wonder if you give the same advice to those enraged by the current state of affairs in the UK?

 

[SebastianBlue]

They aren’t facts though. You believe they are, but they are on the balance of probability.

And sewage.

I have never claimed them to be facts. You are the only one saying they are.

And this is a forum for debate, and we are debating. But you seem to not be that interested in doing that.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

There is no grief. I have—though it took a few years—accepted what is happening to me now.

But I don’t have to accept what is happening to the PL. And suggesting that the best course of action would be to simply stop watching, given what we are debating, is very strange.

I wonder if you give the same advice to those enraged by the current state of affairs in the UK?

Haha, we’ll we could go down the Brexit route, but I’m not sure it’s help @blueinsa ’s argument very much.

What are you doing to change what is happening in the PL, save for trying to educate this poor lost soul here?

However I try to believe what you are saying is true, I revert back to thinking that if I believed that, I would stop watching football.

 

[Irishblueforyou]

With all the favorable decisions we've gotten this season surely a directive will come from up above to screw us over the next few games, could be grim especially with the rags, dippers and the Arse call coming up soon.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

I have never claimed them to be facts. You are the only one saying they are.

And this is a forum for debate, and we are debating. But you seem to not be that interested in doing that.

Of course I am. I was merely suggesting we’re debating in the same loop and it’s not getting us anywhere. I’m happy to continue doing that as long as it’s civil. Suggesting I’m trying to shut that down is borderline for me as I haven’t at any stage.

You've put your point of view across. I’ve put mine. Neither of us are likely to meld to the other’s point of view.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Yes. I would allow the FA to take retrospective action

Yes. Straight red for anyone diving in the box

Ok so a player of (Liverpool/Man Utd) can commit an assault on another player, the ref and officials miss it, the player gets to stay on the pitch and they go on to win the game.

The only punishment is retrospective action when the results already been decided

 

[SebastianBlue]

Haha, we’ll we could go down the Brexit route, but I’m not sure it’s help @blueinsa’s argument very much.

What are you doing to change what is happening in the PL, save for trying to educate this poor lost soul here?

However I try to believe what you are saying is true, I revert back to thinking that if I believed that, I would stop watching football.

Well, I have sent a few proposals for reform to both the PL and the FA, with no response (barring a form reply from the FA). And I have actually made a few inquires offering my expertise to several major media outlets so more public pressure and scrutiny can be placed on the current state of officiating. Nothing have come of those as of yet (I wounded why…).

And I continue to advocate for reform and attempt explain the myriad issues with the current regime on social media, including a few instances of getting more prominent personalities to agree with or outright co-sign my assertions.

Things are progressing as they are with my condition and there’s very little I can do about it at this point, so I am going to use what time I have in a fully lucid state to try to affect change (and my efforts aren’t isolated to football).

I am trying to model behaviour for my son so that later, when he is old enough to really know what is going on and I am a very different person to him, he can hopefully remember that I didn’t just give up on the things that I loved or that were important to him and others, no matter how difficult it became.

 

[flook]

They didn’t get it wrong. ‘ It’s about protecting the product and ensuring competition for as long as is possible.’

So the referee blew early on the Coutinho goal to protect the product (accepting for a moment City are now part of the product), but in doing so prevented a potential winning goal for Villa, which would itself have helped prolong the competition by helping prevent City running away with the league (accepting Arsenal will implode at some point)

In a single line you have offered two diametrically opposed conspiracy theories, I salute you sir.

 

[flook]

So having spent most of the last week trying to convince myself that, probably, referees know what they are doing and they just don’t explain it well enough and quickly enough, they screw up big time. “What can be done?”, people keep asking. Here are my ideas:

Inference of bias/corruption

• Simplify the laws and interpretations of the game for marginal and non-marginal infractions. Every Joe in the stadium or at home should be able to judge on sight if something is a handball, a foul, a sending-off offence or, less hopefully admittedly, an off-side.
• Increase tolerance for off-side decisions, including ball release frames. Select the frame when you think the ball is released but recognise accuracy is impossible, so go back two or three frames and if the result is onside in any frame, go with that. Give benefit of the doubt to the attacker, FFS, but do it consistently.

Sorry, post was too long. Felt good to write it, though.

Good post on the inference of bias/corruption, I agree with all you say except the above. I'm taking the bits about quality of refs with a tub of salt :)

• Not sure we should be changing the laws of the game to suit a technology introduced to help ensure the laws of the game are adhered to
• Too complicated and open to interpretation, instead, the offside decision should be made based on the position of the feet rather than whichever bit of the body can score a goal. This would in most cases remove the need for the lines from the armpit etc which seem to cause much of the controversy. The margin for error should also favour the attacker so that if there is overlap on the feet position then he's onside
• I'm aware my second comment contradicts my first comment

 

[Gray]

The buffoons, who were officiating the games before the advent of VAR, are the same idiots who are now in charge of operating VAR.

What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Phil1]

So, what are you suggesting?

Given that it’s not going anywhere, 100 pages of posters agreeing that it’s shit/corrupt/biased doesn’t do much bar be cathartic or raise the posters‘ blood pressure.

Haha! I'm suggesting nothing as there's fuck all I can do to change it. Week after week of errors deserve a little comment now and then about not being happy with it but I'm a bit too busy to be getting bogged down on a Sunday afternoon going back and forth with your good self who obviously feels more strongly about the subject than me.

 

[BlueHammer85]

So the referee blew early on the Coutinho goal to protect the product (accepting for a moment City are now part of the product), but in doing so prevented a potential winning goal for Villa, which would itself have helped prolong the competition by helping prevent City running away with the league (accepting Arsenal will implode at some point)

In a single line you have offered two diametrically opposed conspiracy theories, I salute you sir.

I was being sarcastic

 

[blue b4 the moon]

Officials can fuck up with human error in real time, the villa move wasn't offside....it happens as we well know (we've been on the wrong side of enough). I won't call it a goal as the whistle had blown and as it had blown and we stopped obviously VAR couldn't correct it.

Officials shouldn't be able to fuck up however when looking at 'clear & obvious' errors from multiple angles. The issue is they're fannying about with a frame rate that's not good enough and in doing so are ignoring the 'clear & obvious' line that they hoodwinked us as the reason it was brought in and then to make matters worse chose which camera to use for the refs monitor to push the change of decision through.

We all know that dependent on the team they look to find a reason, any reason to change the decision, C & O should take 60 seconds at the most, we've seen, especially City (it could happen with other teams as much but not seeing all the other games I'd not like to be definitely comment on it) they'll look for minutes, go back through phases of play etc yet and I'll use the Rashford goal just shout GOAL.

Look at the handball in the CS....any handball in the area is a pen no matter if his hand is in a natural position we were told or is it not the case when McTam juggles the ball.

As I say it likely happens with more than just us but I attend all our home games, watch them fully later and watch most of the rags games so I'm going to die on a hill on how VAR deals with those teams.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

May I just further the debate by saying that the way it’s being run is absolutely shite.

There we go, a huge weight off my chest and will now enjoy the rest of my day until it once again fucks up in the Big Red Derby this afternoon.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Good post on the inference of bias/corruption, I agree with all you say except the above. I'm taking the bits about quality of refs with a tub of salt :)

• Not sure we should be changing the laws of the game to suit a technology introduced to help ensure the laws of the game are adhered to
• Too complicated and open to interpretation, instead, the offside decision should be made based on the position of the feet rather than whichever bit of the body can score a goal. This would in most cases remove the need for the lines from the armpit etc which seem to cause much of the controversy. The margin for error should also favour the attacker so that if there is overlap on the feet position then he's onside
• I'm aware my second comment contradicts my first comment

Agreed that would be a good simplification to the offside rule that can be understood (if not judged accurately) by anyone watching in the stadium or at home. That is all I was meaning really by simplification. Introducing the effects of parallax, height differentials and the rest to something which, in essence, is a simple rule really does nothing to aid the game, especially now as you don't even see how the relative positions on the ground are calculated.