VAR thread 2022/23

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Surely there must be some guidelines for determining a deliberate action. Not looking? Accidental. Moving arm towards the ball? No? Accidental. Arm not in unusual position? Accidental. No time to react? Accidental.

That's my other pet peeve. Referees have guidelines to work under, but no-one knows what they are. Make them public. Let's hear them discuss their application. I am guessing 75% of what fans think are mistakes are actually referees applying guidelines properly but how the hell do we know that?

It does seem that handballs on the continent are given for most touches of the ball on the arm, whether accidental or not.

There seems to be less tolerance than in the PL.

Reading the laws, you can strongly argue that both handballs last night weren’t fouls and probably wouldn’t have been in the PL.

The only good thing I can say about the ref is that he was consistent. He was crap at interpreting the laws though. That isn’t VAR’s fault though.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Did you watch the game last night ? If so talk me through all the visits to the monitor , how long or short a time and was the decisions correct by the laws of handball , ta

Not sure i should waste my time responding to you but here i go - Nope, I didn't see it - only responded to being tagged in, fully accept VAR and the officials made another shambles of it, no surprise and it will be far from the last time and it's happened a good few times this season for and against West Ham

All I argue is I believe Refs should have some form of tech help to have a second look if he is unsure or has missed something blatant - that is all. hardly a crime to want that is it? equally it's fine for anyone to dislike VAR, There's many aspects of it i don't like

Implementing it isn't so easy, as we're seeing.

we could completely scrap it and go back to how it was, yet the first blatant no contact dive by Salah against City or a player a foot or two well offside against you and it will be pages and pages of corruption and outrage, so I firmly believe going back to square 1 isn't the way to go

Ideally the discussion on here should just be questioning and working on progress in getting decisions better - rather than emotional outrage and abuse being hurled about - but for many, where's the fun in that.

 

[GaudinoMotors]

Not sure i should waste my time responding to you but here i go - Nope, I didn't see it - only responded to being tagged in, fully accept VAR and the officials made another shambles of it, no surprise and it will be far from the last time and it's happened a good few times this season for and against West Ham

All I argue is I believe Refs should have some form of tech help to have a second look if he is unsure or has missed something blatant - that is all. hardly a crime to want that is it? equally it's fine for anyone to dislike VAR, There's many aspects of it i don't like

Implementing it isn't so easy, as we're seeing.

we could completely scrap it and go back to how it was, yet the first blatant no contact dive by Salah against City or a player a foot or two well offside against you and it will be pages and pages of corruption and outrage, so I firmly don't believe that's not the way to go

Ideally the discussion on here should just be questioning and working on progress in getting decisions better - rather than emotional outrage and abuse being hurled about - but for many, where's the fun in that.

Interpretation and review are all part of var protocols. Wish people would stop excluding decisions by referees and others from the process. That is var!!

 

[Citizen in Pakistan]

I think it was the red card visit to the monitor that he looked for ages , turned away and went to walk off but half turned back , he wasnt sure, god knows what was being said to him in his ear

Probably "You had one job" I've no issues with the red, it was pretty much straight forward but i still find that Rodri disallowed goal hard to digest

 

[kaz7]

Not sure i should waste my time responding to you but here i go - Nope, I didn't see it - only responded to being tagged in, fully accept VAR and the officials made another shambles of it, no surprise and it will be far from the last time and it's happened a good few times this season for and against West Ham

All I argue is I believe Refs should have some form of tech help to have a second look if he is unsure or has missed something blatant - that is all. hardly a crime to want that is it? equally it's fine for anyone to dislike VAR, There's many aspects of it i don't like

Implementing it isn't so easy, as we're seeing.

we could completely scrap it and go back to how it was, yet the first blatant no contact dive by Salah against City or a player a foot or two well offside against you and it will be pages and pages of corruption and outrage, so I firmly believe going back to square 1 isn't the way to go

Ideally the discussion on here should just be questioning and working on progress in getting decisions better - rather than emotional outrage and abuse being hurled about - but for many, where's the fun in that.

Stop reading at nope didnt watch it , thought not

 

[BlueHammer85]

Stop reading at nope didnt watch it , thought not

wouldn't make any difference to my opinion whether i did or didn't.

 

[halfcenturyup]

It does seem that handballs on the continent are given for most touches of the ball on the arm, whether accidental or not.

There seems to be less tolerance than in the PL.

Reading the laws, you can strongly argue that both handballs last night weren’t fouls and probably wouldn’t have been in the PL.

The only good thing I can say about the ref is that he was consistent. He was crap at interpreting the laws though. That isn’t VAR’s fault though.

Couple of things.

Different guidelines for different associations is just idiotic, especially in a pan-European competition. Unless UEFA have there own guidelines as well, which is even more complicated. Surely it's easier and better for consistency to have guidelines mandated by IFAB?

In reality, the decisions last night were a VAR problem. No-one on the pitch or in the ground saw either as handball except the VAR. Once VAR got involved, the decisions were pretty much made. It would take a brave referee to keep to his original (non-) decision if his mate on VAR refers him to the monitor. He has to work with these guys the rest of the year.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Despite the outcry in the Prem, clubs elsewhere are voting for it.

' VAR to be introduced into the Scottish Premiership.

clubs from the Premiership and lower divisions in Scotland voted in favour of the system being introduced into the top flight

After the resolution passed in April, there has been little talk on an official basis as to when VAR will be brought into place.

However, that now appears to have been fast-tracked, with fresh reports stating that the date could come as early as the end of October.'

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Couple of things.

Different guidelines for different associations is just idiotic, especially in a pan-European competition. Unless UEFA have there own guidelines as well, which is even more complicated. Surely it's easier and better for consistency to have guidelines mandated by IFAB?

In reality, the decisions last night were a VAR problem. No-one on the pitch or in the ground saw either as handball except the VAR. Once VAR got involved, the decisions were pretty much made. It would take a brave referee to keep to his original (non-) decision if his mate on VAR refers him to the monitor. He has to work with these guys the rest of the year.

I agree wholeheartedly that the LOTG should be carried out as consistently as possible, but they never have been. Remember baconface saying his team had to get to grips with the different refereeing in European competition?

Within the same competition, there will be different ways that games are refereed, mostly by which country the ref is from.

What we aren’t privy to is what the ref and VAR chatted about before the game. Maybe the ref wanted to see all handballs etc. or you could be right and VAR shaped the game. The ref could have said no to both situations though.

 

[deano ou812]

Despite the outcry in the Prem, clubs elsewhere are voting for it.

' VAR to be introduced into the Scottish Premiership.

clubs from the Premiership and lower divisions in Scotland voted in favour of the system being introduced into the top flight

After the resolution passed in April, there has been little talk on an official basis as to when VAR will be brought into place.

However, that now appears to have been fast-tracked, with fresh reports stating that the date could come as early as the end of October.'

Who gives a fuck about the Scottish leagues they are of no interest to 99% of fans in England ..The problem with VAR is they need to make it universal one var for all of the domestic leagues and European competitions and stick with one set of rules/laws of the game ..

 

[BlueHammer85]

Who gives a fuck about the Scottish leagues they are of no interest to 99% of fans in England ..The problem with VAR is they need to make it universal one var for all of the domestic leagues and European competitions and stick with one set of rules/laws of the game ..

It proves clubs that don't have VAR want it - including many in the English lower leagues.

worldwide more and more countries are implementing VAR and eventually will be the norm for every major country - It's why it's a bit pointless just ranting and saying 'get rid of it' - as it's unlikely not going to happen unless fans really protested away the computer screen

 

[deano ou812]

It proves clubs that don't have VAR want it - including many in the English lower leagues.

worldwide more and more countries are implementing VAR and eventually will be the norm for every major country - It's why it's a bit pointless just ranting and saying 'get rid of it' - as it's unlikely not going to happen unless fans really protested away the computer screen

I never said get rid,re read the post we need a universal VAR all the same rules/laws and interpretation in every league and competition and more transparency like the TMO in rugby WE all hear what’s going on no cloak and dagger..

 

[BlueHammer85]

I never said get rid,re read the post we need a universal VAR all the same rules/laws and interpretation in every league and competition and more transparency like the TMO in rugby WE all hear what’s going on no cloak and dagger..

I agree, but fear it will take many years to get to that point

 

[mosssideblue]

Also, (for example) what if fans are outraged over a handball given in the box

and we get to hear the officials - ref' I think the ball hit him on the hands, pretty sure it's intentional what do you think?'' VAR team ''we think so too''

thats it? how will that satisfy anyone that feels it's the wrong decision?

Through transparency (showing the incident on the big screens) and actually hearing what it is being scrutinised and why.

If fans could see the replay on the large screen and hear the conversation/justification between the officials, that would be 1000% better than what we have now.

 

[CPPSC]

Why? He can post about what the fuck he wants. If you want an echo chamber then Bluemoon isn’t for you I’m afraid.

Oh and I disagree with a lot @BlueHammer85 posts but he like everyone else is entitled to their viewpoint.

So am I

 

[mosssideblue]

I don’t think it’s comparable really. In cricket and rugby league, the video official is sat twiddling his thumbs and only comes into play when the on field ref/ umpire requests he looks at a specific incident. To then turn his mic on and let the viewers hear his thoughts as he reviews it with no time restraints isn’t really that big an ask.

In football their is a constant four way open line between the officials at the game, which the VAR is listening to. He then joins in making it potentially a five way conversation when he wants to get involved. I really don’t think there’s much to be gained by hearing that live. It couldn’t be on the normal channel anyway. It would have to be on a special button, like the silly fanzone thing used to be. Not sure how many people would be interested in the constant chatter. That’s before you get into things like privacy and the inevitable bad language the mics will pick up.

We only need to hear when VAR is engaged.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

So am I

Of course. No one is telling you to leave the forum though.

 

[Cassandra]

Whether it's a goal scoring opportunity.

I think we can agree that it is a foul, which should have been seen by the AR even if the holding was on the blind side of the referee. Would probably have been given in about 50% of cases without VAR depending on the viewing angle. The next decision is whether it is DOGSO. The guidelines for determining DOGSO are as follows:-

The following must be considered:

• distance between the offence and the goal - edge f penalty areas - meets criteria for DOGSO
• general direction of the play - the ball is travelling from around the centre of the field into the penalty area at about 45 degrees and would probably go out for a goal kick somewhere between the edge of the goal area and the edge of the penalty area - ? debatable whether or not this criteria has been met - in my view not an obvious error for VAR to overturn whichever way the decision is given.
• likelihood of keeping or gaining control of the ball - the Copenhagen player has not had control of the ball and since the ball is running away from him, it is probably 50:50 whether he would have been in a shooting position if he reached the ball before it went out of play.
• location and number of defenders - there are no covering defenders so in that sense the criteria is met but I'm not sure whether Ederson would have got to the ball first.

So it would seem that the decision to show the red card is not incorrect but equally the decision not to award a red card would not be incorrect either, it all boils down to opinion. Whether VAR was right to intervene because the foul was missed or whether it should have considered the whole situation in deciding to intervene is, I think, a mute point.

 

[Paladin]

Picking up a back-pass?

That's not handball.

 

[Paladin]

Who gives a fuck about the Scottish leagues they are of no interest to 99% of fans in England ..The problem with VAR is they need to make it universal one var for all of the domestic leagues and European competitions and stick with one set of rules/laws of the game ..

There is one universal set of rules (laws) with one common set of guidelines. This includes VAR. There are different interpretations throughout the different associations though.

For example, we often see different levels of tolerance for foul play depending on what country the referee comes from.

I'm not sure if the same level of VAR technology is required by each country. (For instance is Scotland allowed to buy last season's VAR technology from the English FA at a discount?)