m27 said:Rammy Blue said:At least Pat got into the game in order to look poor and played some defence splitting passes, NDJ was like the invisible man.
To be fair to him, Vieira never hid once. However, De Jong should NEVER be in a midfield two from the start. He just doesn't offer enough.
He's a holding midfielder as part of a three or he's on the bench.
Bombo said:Very slow very past it
hgblue said:m27 said:I've stuck up for Vieira in recent matches when he was getting stick and I thought he was doing a decent job. However, on the whole last night he was bloody awful. I wouldn't write him off just yet though, our midfield options are that limited we really do need him to play a part from now until the end of the season.
Some of you won't like hearing that but I'm afraid it's just a fact. We will have to bluff our way through until the end of the season in the middle because Bellamy, Johnson, Tevez and Ade/RSC will no doubt start the majority of matches (quite rightly) but that unfortunately means we have to find two midfielders to play together in the middle and we haven't got two fit midfielders who suit this role. Sad but true.
This is why it really pisses me off that Stevie Ireland sulked when asked to play this deeper role by Hughes, instead of grasping the nettle and getting on with it. Say what you like about Hughes, but he knew that Ireland wouldn't get in to the starting line up in his favourite position once Tevez was brought to the club. I'd like to think that the penny has dropped with Stevie by now, and I'd like to see him given a chance alongside Vieira or Barry in a 4-4-2, because we're sorely lacking in creativity in there at the moment.
m27 said:hgblue said:This is why it really pisses me off that Stevie Ireland sulked when asked to play this deeper role by Hughes, instead of grasping the nettle and getting on with it. Say what you like about Hughes, but he knew that Ireland wouldn't get in to the starting line up in his favourite position once Tevez was brought to the club. I'd like to think that the penny has dropped with Stevie by now, and I'd like to see him given a chance alongside Vieira or Barry in a 4-4-2, because we're sorely lacking in creativity in there at the moment.
Good post.
I have posted before that Ireland has to add strings to his bow if he is going to get another look in. I honestly don't see why he can't be a proper box-to-box midfielder OR a playmaker in the Alonso mould.
Neither of these come naturally at the moment to him and he'd have to become more disciplined, certainly for the playmaker role, but he's got the football brain to do it.
I hope he doesn't think that because of last season that's it now, pick me in that position or I'll go somewhere else to play in that position. He might get a surprise at other clubs if he does because his is a very unique role which is usually carried out by the second striker.
hgblue said:m27 said:Good post.
I have posted before that Ireland has to add strings to his bow if he is going to get another look in. I honestly don't see why he can't be a proper box-to-box midfielder OR a playmaker in the Alonso mould.
Neither of these come naturally at the moment to him and he'd have to become more disciplined, certainly for the playmaker role, but he's got the football brain to do it.
I hope he doesn't think that because of last season that's it now, pick me in that position or I'll go somewhere else to play in that position. He might get a surprise at other clubs if he does because his is a very unique role which is usually carried out by the second striker.
The frustrating thing is that i know he could do it, but he has to buy into the idea otherwise it's a waste of time. What's Vieira got that Stevie hasn't? Aerial ability? Ok, but do you pick a creative midfielder because he can head the ball? Experience? Yes, but surely that's more important to us when he comes into games off the bench with fresh legs and twenty minutes to go? I won't even bother listing the things that Stevie is better at because I don't want to be unkind to Vieira.
m27 said:hgblue said:The frustrating thing is that i know he could do it, but he has to buy into the idea otherwise it's a waste of time. What's Vieira got that Stevie hasn't? Aerial ability? Ok, but do you pick a creative midfielder because he can head the ball? Experience? Yes, but surely that's more important to us when he comes into games off the bench with fresh legs and twenty minutes to go? I won't even bother listing the things that Stevie is better at because I don't want to be unkind to Vieira.
In regard to the deep lying playmaker, the great thing about top class players of this type is that they occupy a central area, create and also pick up 2nd balls and break up play, not with crunching tackles but with their reading of the game. It's like a creative and a defensive midfielder rolled into one.
How many times did we see Stevie intercept balls last season when he was on song? Loads, he was brilliant at that last season.
If he wants it, it's there for him.
hgblue said:m27 said:In regard to the deep lying playmaker, the great thing about top class players of this type is that they occupy a central area, create and also pick up 2nd balls and break up play, not with crunching tackles but with their reading of the game. It's like a creative and a defensive midfielder rolled into one.
How many times did we see Stevie intercept balls last season when he was on song? Loads, he was brilliant at that last season.
If he wants it, it's there for him.
Couldn't agree more. Also your selection of Alonso as a player that Ireland would do well to model his game on was very perceptive. Do me a favour, get his number off Billy Shears and give him a bell will you?
Kippax Street 1880 said:He may not be as mobile as he was in his heyday (can't fucking move). But everytime he gets the ball he passes it forward to a City shirt, he has already created 2 goals out of nothing with superb lobbed passes, he needs somebody more mobile alongside him like Barry or Zaba, but he is still a quality player and he brings something different to the midfield.
agreedDidsbury Dave said:Kippax Street 1880 said:He may not be as mobile as he was in his heyday (can't fucking move). But everytime he gets the ball he passes it forward to a City shirt, he has already created 2 goals out of nothing with superb lobbed passes, he needs somebody more mobile alongside him like Barry or Zaba, but he is still a quality player and he brings something different to the midfield.
Just caught the end of this thread and some good discussion is going on.
My opinion is, and always has been, that Vieira is past it.
A fine player in his time, but City are better than bloody ageing immobile midfielders. Or we should be.