hmm, city actually have a good record of getting points from losing positions so from a statistical point of view i'd say we are not mentally weak however from a qualitative view, you cant deny there is some sort of mental block surrounding the XI every so often.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
We are not mentally weak
- Thread starter B\connellblue
- Start date
GaudinoMotors
Well-Known Member
The emotive titling of this thread has itself neutered a possible interesting discussion.
OB1
Well-Known Member
The emotive titling of this thread has itself neutered a possible interesting discussion.
Some people do have a propensity to go to one end of the scale rather than taking a balanced view.
You can put any name you wish to a side that when its behind gets nothing from a game and lacks the ability to dig out a result.
When we have been behind at half time in our past 12 games our record is 0-1-11.
This season we have blown leads against very average sides in Juventus and Spurs.
I do agree the massive injury list ( what resources are we putting into player management FFS ) has unbalanced us and Saturday was one big cock up starting from the management team down after we took the lead but overall our management team and the playing group lack steel and this combined with the injuries will derail this season unless we get smarter on match days and lift our intensity over 90 minutes.
Seems pretty damning.
Haha ... so true. I think the rush to need to blame/castigate/belittle after any and every defeat speaks to an underlying weakness in certain segments of the forum based support. A weak mentality which leads to an inability to see things rationally or to have any sensible perspective on things. It's been one long cringe reading the individual player threads and the match day thread since Saturday afternoon because of this. Hopefully as the week passes the weak will find other things to distract them.
Can you please stop the "I'm a bigger blue than you" stuff.
Last edited:
The mentally weak thing has come around because losses have come very quickly. After a fantastic start, it's easy to say that one setback seems to have knocked out confidence a bit. On the face of it, at least.
The West Ham game was a strange one - we were so much the better team in the 2nd half. We were poor in the 1st, but we had so many opportunities - we lost that game down to poor finishing as much as anything. This wasn't mental weakness.
Juve - poor finishing, and arguably a bit of a block in the CL. We shouldn't have this "mental block", and I'm not sure it exists, but we do underperform in the CL. And whilst juve set up well, they have performed poorly in the league pre and post that game.
Spurs - if one game did show mental weakness it was this. Whilst the decision for their equaliser was a shocker, that shouldn't have affected our 2nd half performance so drastically. Every time they attacked they looked like they could score. Pellegrini described the goal as a "psychological goal", suggesting that it did have a mental affect. A mental affect that saw our heads well and truly drop.
If we lose on Wednesday that will be 4 losses in 5- that is a problem. That game will show a lot about our mental strength - or at least our CL mentality.
As others have said - can a team who have come from "losing" positions to win the league, twice, be mentally weak?
If we win Wednesday, everything will be back on track, and I could see us going on a really good run.
The West Ham game was a strange one - we were so much the better team in the 2nd half. We were poor in the 1st, but we had so many opportunities - we lost that game down to poor finishing as much as anything. This wasn't mental weakness.
Juve - poor finishing, and arguably a bit of a block in the CL. We shouldn't have this "mental block", and I'm not sure it exists, but we do underperform in the CL. And whilst juve set up well, they have performed poorly in the league pre and post that game.
Spurs - if one game did show mental weakness it was this. Whilst the decision for their equaliser was a shocker, that shouldn't have affected our 2nd half performance so drastically. Every time they attacked they looked like they could score. Pellegrini described the goal as a "psychological goal", suggesting that it did have a mental affect. A mental affect that saw our heads well and truly drop.
If we lose on Wednesday that will be 4 losses in 5- that is a problem. That game will show a lot about our mental strength - or at least our CL mentality.
As others have said - can a team who have come from "losing" positions to win the league, twice, be mentally weak?
If we win Wednesday, everything will be back on track, and I could see us going on a really good run.
If you include cup and community shield, 9 of those losses came last season and 2 this seasonI hate statistics as a rule because they can be so easily manipulated. I'll wager those 12 games we were behind in at half time were over quite a few seasons. you have to remember we are rarely behind at half time.
Rickaccurate
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 26 Aug 2013
- Messages
- 89
Mentally Weak?
Good
I hope they keep writing that
And I hope the team reads it and gets angry
Curious to see that team playing pissed off
Maybe that's what we're missing
Love the team
But questioning their toughness is completely appropriate imho
I hate it when they lose
Hate it when officiating costs us,
Injuries, what have you
But being out worked ?
Good
I hope they keep writing that
And I hope the team reads it and gets angry
Curious to see that team playing pissed off
Maybe that's what we're missing
Love the team
But questioning their toughness is completely appropriate imho
I hate it when they lose
Hate it when officiating costs us,
Injuries, what have you
But being out worked ?
City_Sean
Well-Known Member
Mentally Weak?
Good
I hope they keep writing that
And I hope the team reads it and gets angry
Curious to see that team playing pissed off
Maybe that's what we're missing
Love the team
But questioning their toughness is completely appropriate imho
I hate it when they lose
Hate it when officiating costs us,
Injuries, what have you
But being out worked ?
I can take us losing, the West ham game was a frustration, but I came away from it proud of how we played. 9 times out of 10 we'd have scored in that second half. The second half on Saturday was a disgrace, where was the passion, the fight? It was a team who looked resigned to defeat and weren't prepared to fight to get back into the game. Yes, the offside decisions killed us, but you have to keep playing, and our reaction was as poor as I've seen from us in a long time. Hopefully the lads have had an inquest, and are going to come out fighting.
Dave Ewing's Back 'eader
Well-Known Member
I can take us losing, the West ham game was a frustration, but I came away from it proud of how we played. 9 times out of 10 we'd have scored in that second half. The second half on Saturday was a disgrace, where was the passion, the fight? It was a team who looked resigned to defeat and weren't prepared to fight to get back into the game. Yes, the offside decisions killed us, but you have to keep playing, and our reaction was as poor as I've seen from us in a long time. Hopefully the lads have had an inquest, and are going to come out fighting.
I fancy that had there been the requisite 'fight' to get us back in the game, MDM would have had the second yellow by fifty mins and another would have been booked for either 'aggressively walking' towards Crappenberg or not holding his mouth in a straight line! Crappenberg holds up the yellow and red cards like a matador holding up a bull's ears in a bullring - and with extra gusto when it's one of ours.
If you include cup and community shield, 9 of those losses came last season and 2 this season
He obviously didn't include cup because if he had then the Sheff Wed game which we won after trailing at ht would be in there or the Bayern game in which we won after trailing at ht would be in there too.
It depends what you mean by mentally weak. I certainly think there's an element in our dressing room who are unable to cope with the pressure that being at a club like City challenging for honours that we are, and I don't mean often pointed examples like Nasri but more more protected players like Kompany and Silva. I also think this extends to large sections of the fanbase and it creates a feedback loop that makes the team nervous which makes the fans nervous which makes the team more nervous, etc.
The big thing I have taken away from those title runs seems to be different from other people. They see us coming back from 10 points back as a heroic achievement of pulling through when we're really under pressure. This isn't the reality as I perceive it, I see us unable to keep toe to toe with teams across a season and only when we're so far back that we're no longer expected to win it and all expectations have gone are we really able to perform to our highest standards. A standard that the teams under a Mourinho or Fergusion would have done without needing that pressure lifted in the last stages.
Our best run in both title seasons have always been once the title was pretty much gone and required spectacular collapses from others. You can see it in the Champions League too, where we are crippled by nerves and pressure and desire to do well to the point where the first signs of difficulty almost become an excuse for "here it goes again".
I have always put this at the door of Vincent Kompany who is the embodiment to me of the mental problems I see in the team. He's the definition of a person who believes that trying harder will make a situation better instead of the more mature approach that just calming down will make a situation better. I've had this conversation on here numerous times in previous seasons but will yet again point to his pre-season work - he thought the way to overcome his injury problems was again to do the only thing he knows how to do and try harder, get into the gym early, make himself stronger. Now he's injured again a few weeks into the new season. He has always had a rather immature view that comes through in every part of his game, you can see it when we go down and he's attempting to inspire the team not just by doing his job but by doing everybody else's too which whether anybody likes it or not means that he cannot be doing his job to the required standard. He attempts to charge around and cover for everyone which hangs him personally out to dry, and as a centre back he should be absolutely solid with his partner and let the full backs and defensive midfielders do their own job.
Kompany is the most English of centre backs despite being Belgian. Never seemingly understanding the value of calming down rather than ramping up.
You can argue many different causes over this, but I cannot think of a really high pressure game where Silva has displayed his incredible talent. Might be a slip of memory but he certainly isn't somebody who I think will be pulling us through in those games unlike an Aguero or a Yaya.
Yaya is a good example of the attitude that I'm talking about. Despite people screaming at him for waltzing around the pitch unlike Kompany who charges everywhere, he is rightfully recognised as one of the best midfielders in the world. He is arguably City's biggest "big game player", scoring in Finals, Semis, great performances in Europe here and there. Definitely can be criticised for his lack of consistency but he isn't a player who gets overawed by occasions. Aguero goes without saying.
I think it's sensible to now wonder if there's something inherently wrong with the spine of our team in regards to their ability to cope with the really tight occasions, often against the 11 man defence, or really high profile occasions where we need to go to Stamford Bridge and win, late in the season.
Winning all of our titles from 6-10 back has created a false narrative around us. We see ourselves as people who came back from the dead whereas more focus should be put on asking questions of how we managed to die in the first place, only performing after the pressure has subsided allowing us to take the trophy.
The big thing I have taken away from those title runs seems to be different from other people. They see us coming back from 10 points back as a heroic achievement of pulling through when we're really under pressure. This isn't the reality as I perceive it, I see us unable to keep toe to toe with teams across a season and only when we're so far back that we're no longer expected to win it and all expectations have gone are we really able to perform to our highest standards. A standard that the teams under a Mourinho or Fergusion would have done without needing that pressure lifted in the last stages.
Our best run in both title seasons have always been once the title was pretty much gone and required spectacular collapses from others. You can see it in the Champions League too, where we are crippled by nerves and pressure and desire to do well to the point where the first signs of difficulty almost become an excuse for "here it goes again".
I have always put this at the door of Vincent Kompany who is the embodiment to me of the mental problems I see in the team. He's the definition of a person who believes that trying harder will make a situation better instead of the more mature approach that just calming down will make a situation better. I've had this conversation on here numerous times in previous seasons but will yet again point to his pre-season work - he thought the way to overcome his injury problems was again to do the only thing he knows how to do and try harder, get into the gym early, make himself stronger. Now he's injured again a few weeks into the new season. He has always had a rather immature view that comes through in every part of his game, you can see it when we go down and he's attempting to inspire the team not just by doing his job but by doing everybody else's too which whether anybody likes it or not means that he cannot be doing his job to the required standard. He attempts to charge around and cover for everyone which hangs him personally out to dry, and as a centre back he should be absolutely solid with his partner and let the full backs and defensive midfielders do their own job.
Kompany is the most English of centre backs despite being Belgian. Never seemingly understanding the value of calming down rather than ramping up.
You can argue many different causes over this, but I cannot think of a really high pressure game where Silva has displayed his incredible talent. Might be a slip of memory but he certainly isn't somebody who I think will be pulling us through in those games unlike an Aguero or a Yaya.
Yaya is a good example of the attitude that I'm talking about. Despite people screaming at him for waltzing around the pitch unlike Kompany who charges everywhere, he is rightfully recognised as one of the best midfielders in the world. He is arguably City's biggest "big game player", scoring in Finals, Semis, great performances in Europe here and there. Definitely can be criticised for his lack of consistency but he isn't a player who gets overawed by occasions. Aguero goes without saying.
I think it's sensible to now wonder if there's something inherently wrong with the spine of our team in regards to their ability to cope with the really tight occasions, often against the 11 man defence, or really high profile occasions where we need to go to Stamford Bridge and win, late in the season.
Winning all of our titles from 6-10 back has created a false narrative around us. We see ourselves as people who came back from the dead whereas more focus should be put on asking questions of how we managed to die in the first place, only performing after the pressure has subsided allowing us to take the trophy.
Jazzman
Well-Known Member
There is a lot of sense in this post.It depends what you mean by mentally weak. I certainly think there's an element in our dressing room who are unable to cope with the pressure that being at a club like City challenging for honours that we are, and I don't mean often pointed examples like Nasri but more more protected players like Kompany and Silva. I also think this extends to large sections of the fanbase and it creates a feedback loop that makes the team nervous which makes the fans nervous which makes the team more nervous, etc.
The big thing I have taken away from those title runs seems to be different from other people. They see us coming back from 10 points back as a heroic achievement of pulling through when we're really under pressure. This isn't the reality as I perceive it, I see us unable to keep toe to toe with teams across a season and only when we're so far back that we're no longer expected to win it and all expectations have gone are we really able to perform to our highest standards. A standard that the teams under a Mourinho or Fergusion would have done without needing that pressure lifted in the last stages.
Our best run in both title seasons have always been once the title was pretty much gone and required spectacular collapses from others. You can see it in the Champions League too, where we are crippled by nerves and pressure and desire to do well to the point where the first signs of difficulty almost become an excuse for "here it goes again".
I have always put this at the door of Vincent Kompany who is the embodiment to me of the mental problems I see in the team. He's the definition of a person who believes that trying harder will make a situation better instead of the more mature approach that just calming down will make a situation better. I've had this conversation on here numerous times in previous seasons but will yet again point to his pre-season work - he thought the way to overcome his injury problems was again to do the only thing he knows how to do and try harder, get into the gym early, make himself stronger. Now he's injured again a few weeks into the new season. He has always had a rather immature view that comes through in every part of his game, you can see it when we go down and he's attempting to inspire the team not just by doing his job but by doing everybody else's too which whether anybody likes it or not means that he cannot be doing his job to the required standard. He attempts to charge around and cover for everyone which hangs him personally out to dry, and as a centre back he should be absolutely solid with his partner and let the full backs and defensive midfielders do their own job.
Kompany is the most English of centre backs despite being Belgian. Never seemingly understanding the value of calming down rather than ramping up.
You can argue many different causes over this, but I cannot think of a really high pressure game where Silva has displayed his incredible talent. Might be a slip of memory but he certainly isn't somebody who I think will be pulling us through in those games unlike an Aguero or a Yaya.
Yaya is a good example of the attitude that I'm talking about. Despite people screaming at him for waltzing around the pitch unlike Kompany who charges everywhere, he is rightfully recognised as one of the best midfielders in the world. He is arguably City's biggest "big game player", scoring in Finals, Semis, great performances in Europe here and there. Definitely can be criticised for his lack of consistency but he isn't a player who gets overawed by occasions. Aguero goes without saying.
I think it's sensible to now wonder if there's something inherently wrong with the spine of our team in regards to their ability to cope with the really tight occasions, often against the 11 man defence, or really high profile occasions where we need to go to Stamford Bridge and win, late in the season.
Winning all of our titles from 6-10 back has created a false narrative around us. We see ourselves as people who came back from the dead whereas more focus should be put on asking questions of how we managed to die in the first place, only performing after the pressure has subsided allowing us to take the trophy.
GaudinoMotors
Well-Known Member
It depends what you mean by mentally weak. I certainly think there's an element in our dressing room who are unable to cope with the pressure that being at a club like City challenging for honours that we are, and I don't mean often pointed examples like Nasri but more more protected players like Kompany and Silva. I also think this extends to large sections of the fanbase and it creates a feedback loop that makes the team nervous which makes the fans nervous which makes the team more nervous, etc.
The big thing I have taken away from those title runs seems to be different from other people. They see us coming back from 10 points back as a heroic achievement of pulling through when we're really under pressure. This isn't the reality as I perceive it, I see us unable to keep toe to toe with teams across a season and only when we're so far back that we're no longer expected to win it and all expectations have gone are we really able to perform to our highest standards. A standard that the teams under a Mourinho or Fergusion would have done without needing that pressure lifted in the last stages.
Our best run in both title seasons have always been once the title was pretty much gone and required spectacular collapses from others. You can see it in the Champions League too, where we are crippled by nerves and pressure and desire to do well to the point where the first signs of difficulty almost become an excuse for "here it goes again".
I have always put this at the door of Vincent Kompany who is the embodiment to me of the mental problems I see in the team. He's the definition of a person who believes that trying harder will make a situation better instead of the more mature approach that just calming down will make a situation better. I've had this conversation on here numerous times in previous seasons but will yet again point to his pre-season work - he thought the way to overcome his injury problems was again to do the only thing he knows how to do and try harder, get into the gym early, make himself stronger. Now he's injured again a few weeks into the new season. He has always had a rather immature view that comes through in every part of his game, you can see it when we go down and he's attempting to inspire the team not just by doing his job but by doing everybody else's too which whether anybody likes it or not means that he cannot be doing his job to the required standard. He attempts to charge around and cover for everyone which hangs him personally out to dry, and as a centre back he should be absolutely solid with his partner and let the full backs and defensive midfielders do their own job.
Kompany is the most English of centre backs despite being Belgian. Never seemingly understanding the value of calming down rather than ramping up.
You can argue many different causes over this, but I cannot think of a really high pressure game where Silva has displayed his incredible talent. Might be a slip of memory but he certainly isn't somebody who I think will be pulling us through in those games unlike an Aguero or a Yaya.
Yaya is a good example of the attitude that I'm talking about. Despite people screaming at him for waltzing around the pitch unlike Kompany who charges everywhere, he is rightfully recognised as one of the best midfielders in the world. He is arguably City's biggest "big game player", scoring in Finals, Semis, great performances in Europe here and there. Definitely can be criticised for his lack of consistency but he isn't a player who gets overawed by occasions. Aguero goes without saying.
I think it's sensible to now wonder if there's something inherently wrong with the spine of our team in regards to their ability to cope with the really tight occasions, often against the 11 man defence, or really high profile occasions where we need to go to Stamford Bridge and win, late in the season.
Winning all of our titles from 6-10 back has created a false narrative around us. We see ourselves as people who came back from the dead whereas more focus should be put on asking questions of how we managed to die in the first place, only performing after the pressure has subsided allowing us to take the trophy.
At last - sense
It depends what you mean by mentally weak. I certainly think there's an element in our dressing room who are unable to cope with the pressure that being at a club like City challenging for honours that we are, and I don't mean often pointed examples like Nasri but more more protected players like Kompany and Silva. I also think this extends to large sections of the fanbase and it creates a feedback loop that makes the team nervous which makes the fans nervous which makes the team more nervous, etc.
The big thing I have taken away from those title runs seems to be different from other people. They see us coming back from 10 points back as a heroic achievement of pulling through when we're really under pressure. This isn't the reality as I perceive it, I see us unable to keep toe to toe with teams across a season and only when we're so far back that we're no longer expected to win it and all expectations have gone are we really able to perform to our highest standards. A standard that the teams under a Mourinho or Fergusion would have done without needing that pressure lifted in the last stages.
Our best run in both title seasons have always been once the title was pretty much gone and required spectacular collapses from others. You can see it in the Champions League too, where we are crippled by nerves and pressure and desire to do well to the point where the first signs of difficulty almost become an excuse for "here it goes again".
I have always put this at the door of Vincent Kompany who is the embodiment to me of the mental problems I see in the team. He's the definition of a person who believes that trying harder will make a situation better instead of the more mature approach that just calming down will make a situation better. I've had this conversation on here numerous times in previous seasons but will yet again point to his pre-season work - he thought the way to overcome his injury problems was again to do the only thing he knows how to do and try harder, get into the gym early, make himself stronger. Now he's injured again a few weeks into the new season. He has always had a rather immature view that comes through in every part of his game, you can see it when we go down and he's attempting to inspire the team not just by doing his job but by doing everybody else's too which whether anybody likes it or not means that he cannot be doing his job to the required standard. He attempts to charge around and cover for everyone which hangs him personally out to dry, and as a centre back he should be absolutely solid with his partner and let the full backs and defensive midfielders do their own job.
Kompany is the most English of centre backs despite being Belgian. Never seemingly understanding the value of calming down rather than ramping up.
You can argue many different causes over this, but I cannot think of a really high pressure game where Silva has displayed his incredible talent. Might be a slip of memory but he certainly isn't somebody who I think will be pulling us through in those games unlike an Aguero or a Yaya.
Yaya is a good example of the attitude that I'm talking about. Despite people screaming at him for waltzing around the pitch unlike Kompany who charges everywhere, he is rightfully recognised as one of the best midfielders in the world. He is arguably City's biggest "big game player", scoring in Finals, Semis, great performances in Europe here and there. Definitely can be criticised for his lack of consistency but he isn't a player who gets overawed by occasions. Aguero goes without saying.
I think it's sensible to now wonder if there's something inherently wrong with the spine of our team in regards to their ability to cope with the really tight occasions, often against the 11 man defence, or really high profile occasions where we need to go to Stamford Bridge and win, late in the season.
Winning all of our titles from 6-10 back has created a false narrative around us. We see ourselves as people who came back from the dead whereas more focus should be put on asking questions of how we managed to die in the first place, only performing after the pressure has subsided allowing us to take the trophy.
Good points made Damocles.
While many call VK as intelligent on and off the field he doesn't give himself the best chance to be the most effective he can be for any team he plays and to be quite frank I would have thought he would have worked out long ago how he can contribute in the best way possible to put us in the best possible position to cope with the rigours of the premiership and make us harder to defeat in Europe.
He has been probably along with YAYA and Silva our best purchases to date over the past 7 years but he fails to lead us well enough to make us feared by teams especially at home although for a while I thought we did have that aura about us but it feels and perhaps the current crop of players believe we have lost that aura as well.
Silva as well when left alone is all class but when he is man marked and oppositions are prepared to double team him or man mark him he struggles and this is also a flaw in his make up to better handle pressure.
They are both talented and gifted and you would have them in our starting eleven as often as possible unless we had better options available but I agree in different ways they don't handle pressure that well in terms of doing what is required.
Its a huge flaw in the make up of the team that we cannot cope well oe well enough when we are behind in games no matter the opposition.
MeatHunterrr
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 24 Apr 2014
- Messages
- 11,440
sadly i have to agree.I have said many times our spine will be nothing like what it is now when we win the Chumps League for the first time.
Our best years in Europe will be with players yet to join us.
So Kompany and Silva are to blame for all our woes now? Even though it's them missing that has led to the question being asked in the first place?
If you completely ignore every single point made and then oversimplfy it to the point where it's no longer even an argument, then yes that is what is to blame.
sadly i have to agree.
These things take time.
Our manager will be a different one as well but its not such a bad thing as the taste of victory will be sweeter.
We don't have the set up or the personnel to carry out the game plan necessary at this stage and I am pretty sure all and sundry know it including the players which is part of the reason they come up short as they lack the right mentality almost to a man.
We will bring in players and a manager that do however because we will keep learning from the mistakes me make in this regard remembering you usually cannot do these things quickly.