West Ham post game....

[cleavers]

Blame Ric!

For decent discussion, or 100 pages ?

 

[cleavers]

Really? seems like one person telling everyone else they are wrong over and over again

Might be worth reading some of the longer posts ;o)

I think there's been some very good discussion today.

 

[Dribble]

For decent discussion, or 100 pages ?

For decent discussion leading to 100 pages, albeit I think that the absence certain people might have more to do with this as a percentage of this success if that is what you were intimating.

 

[lasereyes]

The argument over injuries like you say holds no water for me as all teams can quote crucial players being absent. The fact is if Kompany is out, we have £70m worth of CB talent and an experienced Argentinian International as his back up. Mancini did better with less and that's why these stats whilst interesting, will not detract from the dross I've been increasingly seeing with my own two eyes.

In terms of formations I can quite easily pick our best 11, but that would be completely different to what I reckon is our best team. This for me is what has been at the source of our problems over the last 3 years and I see no sign of this being resolved unless we have a manager who's willing to risk upsetting his star players.

Sorry, what's your basis for this? Both Mancini and MP have 1 title and 1 runners up spot plus 1 domestic cup. And we have been far better in the CL under MP. And "Mancini had less" is also misleading. Yes we have spent some big dollars since he left, but so too have all our rivals. The Scum have way out-spent us. This fact-free pining for Mancini is laughable.

 

[lasereyes]

Dave was playing badly but kev was worse so i would have hooked him and left dave on,he was taking control and we were on top when he was hooked.We needed fernando but take kev off and give dave his space back
And yes it is game on

Agree with this. Silva was poor by his standards, but he had just played a part in our equalizer (nice aerial flick to Toure, who then found Iheanacho). Can't remember KDB doing anything of note. I would have brought on Fernandinho in place of KDB.

 

[Dribble]

Sorry, what's your basis for this? Both Mancini and MP have 1 title and 1 runners up spot plus 1 domestic cup. And we have been far better in the CL under MP. And "Mancini had less" is also misleading. Yes we have spent some big dollars since he left, but so too have all our rivals. The Scum have way out-spent us. This fact-free pining for Mancini is laughable.

What pining for Mancini is that? If you want to discuss a point, stop creating shit that doesn't exist and has never been mentioned. Its been explained many a time that both managers were in very different positions when they arrived at City so where do you get your like for like comparison from?

My point was that Manuel has far better defensive options to choose from so saying that we're defensively falling apart because of Kompany's absence is something I have a problem with. Yes we're a stronger unit with captain Kompany, but with the talent at our disposal surely there shouldn't be such a monumental drop off in performance because Kompany's out? We were better defensively prior to Manuel's arrival with a weaker defensive unit, are you denying this?

The point I and many people have made/are making, is perhaps this has something to do with Manuel's all out attacking philosophy, the fact we have been found out and now that we need to regain our famed defensive solidarity, he doesn't seem to have the answers. Today we've had all the defensive stats and what not, but the most reliable indicators are my two eyes which show me something a little bit more alarming than the stats show or you are trying to convince me are facts.

 

[Blue Mooner]

What pining for Mancini is that? If you want to discuss a point, stop creating shit that doesn't exist and has never been mentioned. Its been explained many a time that both managers were in very different positions when they arrived at City so where do you get your like for like comparison from?

My point was that Manuel has far better defensive options to choose from so saying that we're defensively falling apart because of Kompany's absence is something I have a problem with. Yes we're a stronger unit with captain Kompany, but with the talent at our disposal surely there shouldn't be such a monumental drop off in performance because Kompany's out? We were better defensively prior to Manuel's arrival with a weaker defensive unit, are you denying this?

The point I and many people have made/are making, is perhaps this has something to do with Manuel's all out attacking philosophy, the fact we have been found out and now that we need to regain our famed defensive solidarity, he doesn't seem to have the answers. Today we've had all the defensive stats and what not, but the most reliable indicators are my two eyes which show me something a little bit more alarming than the stats show or you are trying to convince me are facts.

Lowest shots conceded in the premier league and lowest number of offsides per game (despite playing a high line) it's clear the lino's give us very little protection - which I think we saw all too well against Spurs and Everton in the capital one cup. If anyone can't see an agenda in the way our defenders are portrayed and yaya is portrayed after seeing these stats it beggars belief.

This is controversial but I think we need a better keeper than Joe. He seems to struggle with concentration and picking things up after long periods of doing nothing. In the second half I thought di Michelis was imperious.

 

[lasereyes]

What pining for Mancini is that? If you want to discuss a point, stop creating shit that doesn't exist and has never been mentioned. Its been explained many a time that both managers were in very different positions when they arrived at City so where do you get your like for like comparison from?

My point was that Manuel has far better defensive options to choose from so saying that we're defensively falling apart because of Kompany's absence is something I have a problem with. Yes we're a stronger unit with captain Kompany, but with the talent at our disposal surely there shouldn't be such a monumental drop off in performance because Kompany's out? We were better defensively prior to Manuel's arrival with a weaker defensive unit, are you denying this?

The point I and many people have made/are making, is perhaps this has something to do with Manuel's all out attacking philosophy, the fact we have been found out and now that we need to regain our famed defensive solidarity, he doesn't seem to have the answers. Today we've had all the defensive stats and what not, but the most reliable indicators are my two eyes which show me something a little bit more alarming than the stats show or you are trying to convince me are facts.

OK, firstly, you and I have never interacted, so not sure why you are being so aggressive in your opening salvo. Secondly, you wrote "Mancini did more with less". I was simply responding to that.

 

[citymad]

Bluemooner thats a very brave statement and one I can't disagree more. Joe is one of the best keepers in Europe if not the World. We're lucky to have this man who clearly loves the club.

 

[lasereyes]

Lowest shots conceded in the premier league and lowest number of offsides per game (despite playing a high line) it's clear the lino's give us very little protection - which I think we saw all too well against Spurs and Everton in the capital one cup. If anyone can't see an agenda in the way our defenders are portrayed and yaya is portrayed after seeing these stats it beggars belief.

This is controversial but I think we need a better keeper than Joe. He seems to struggle with concentration and picking things up after long periods of doing nothing. In the second half I thought di Michelis was imperious.

You're right - it is highly controversial. And the timing is odd after Joe bailed us out with one of the saves of the season.

 

[Blue Mooner]

You're right - it is highly controversial. And the timing is odd after Joe bailed us out with one of the saves of the season.

Agreed that the free kick was a fantastic save and one that he is definitely capable of. I just think his problem is not ability when he's 'on it' (see Barcelona last season) I just think he lets himself down with his concentration in games we are dominating. That throw in was a case in point, had he been alive he should have claimed that every time or at least been out to block it much quicker. It was put in on the six yard box with a toe poke - that simply can't be right from a throw in!?

I love Joe, the man, and he represents our club fantastically well, it's just that I look at lloris yesterday and De gea consistently and they are a step up. The shots conceded per game vs goals conceded is not in Joe's favour to say we have one of the best keepers in Europe.

 

[Bluekiwi]

1 away win in 8. Ouch! Yaya left for dead for the first goal ( he can't have been tired, it was after 45seconds!) Otamendi gone to sleep for the second. I'm sick of yaya taking the free kicks too. For two games in a row now he's pulled rank on KDB and put it straight in the wall.

Unfortunately when KDB took a free kick he hit the only player in the wall

 

[Dribble]

OK, firstly, you and I have never interacted, so not sure why you are being so aggressive in your opening salvo. Secondly, you wrote "Mancini did more with less". I was simply responding to that.

Very simple. I'm stating my opinion and you come out with the antagonising 'pining for Mancini' jibe.

I don't log every person I interact with, but just because I disagree with someone doesn't mean I'd refer to them as 'Pellegrini Ring Suckers' or anything like that even if I did know them.

So in short, you don't know me and have never interacted with me, so what makes you think I'm 'Pining for Mancini'?

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

The point I and many people have made/are making, is perhaps this has something to do with Manuel's all out attacking philosophy, the fact we have been found out and now that we need to regain our famed defensive solidarity, he doesn't seem to have the answers. Today we've had all the defensive stats and what not, but the most reliable indicators are my two eyes which show me something a little bit more alarming than the stats show or you are trying to convince me are facts.

I suspect the answer lies somewhere in between the stats that show we're not that bad and our eyes, which often say the opposite.

Our supposedly shit defence has conceded 23 goals, which is only two more than the supposedly ultra-defensive rags. But the manner in which we've conceded some of those 23 has been infuriating to say the least. I think we owe a lot to Joe Hart to be honest. I've been very critical of parts of his game but you can't knock his shot-stopping.

Brendan Rodgers said any team can defend (or something to that effect). He couldn't actually manage it though but there's a trade-off between attack and defence. The more players you commit to going forward, the more open you're going to be at the back. It also works the other way of course. How many teams have come to the Etihad and been organised and compact, with two banks of 4 or a 4 and a 5, giving us no room to work in front of their goal? Whereas we go away from home and have 7 players up the field, leaving the centre-backs far too much space to cover. There's too much space between the lines which gives the opposition space to play in.

But we looked good at the start of the season and I don't think that Kompany being there was the whole answer. We played Navas & Sterling as wide men but both covered the full-backs. So Kolarov, who we know is defensively suspect, had Sterling covering him. Without that, then the left-sided centre back has to cover, which creates gaps in front of the goal. But with cover in front of the full backs, the centre halves could concentrate on the middle of the park and not have ot worry too much about the flanks. But we seemed to stop that a few games in and it was noticeable that Sterling was coming in-field a lot more. Kompany's absence masked that to a large degree but that, to me, is the source of the problem. Play Toure if you have to but with Fernando/Fernadinho/Delph and behind a three of Sterling, Navas and Silva/De Bruyne.

You don't have to go all-out defensive; just make sure all the bases are covered.

 

[Dribble]

Lowest shots conceded in the premier league and lowest number of offsides per game (despite playing a high line) it's clear the lino's give us very little protection - which I think we saw all too well against Spurs and Everton in the capital one cup. If anyone can't see an agenda in the way our defenders are portrayed and yaya is portrayed after seeing these stats it beggars belief.

This is controversial but I think we need a better keeper than Joe. He seems to struggle with concentration and picking things up after long periods of doing nothing. In the second half I thought di Michelis was imperious.

Lowest number of shots conceded = Least number of chances needed to score against us.

You can twist statistics to suit any argument, but to be honest mate I 'd rather trust my two eyes and defensively they tell me a different story. Also with the least number of shots conceded, shouldn't we be running away with the league?

Stats are never the whole story mate as Saturday against WHU proved.....

 

[Dribble]

I suspect the answer lies somewhere in between the stats that show we're not that bad and our eyes, which often say the opposite.

Our supposedly shit defence has conceded 23 goals, which is only two more than the supposedly ultra-defensive rags. But the manner in which we've conceded some of those 23 has been infuriating to say the least. I think we owe a lot to Joe Hart to be honest. I've been very critical of parts of his game but you can't knock his shot-stopping.

Brendan Rodgers said any team can defend (or something to that effect). He couldn't actually manage it though but there's a trade-off between attack and defence. The more players you commit to going forward, the more open you're going to be at the back. It also works the other way of course. How many teams have come to the Etihad and been organised and compact, with two banks of 4 or a 4 and a 5, giving us no room to work in front of their goal? Whereas we go away from home and have 7 players up the field, leaving the centre-backs far too much space to cover. There's too much space between the lines which gives the opposition space to play in.

But we looked good at the start of the season and I don't think that Kompany being there was the whole answer. We played Navas & Sterling as wide men but both covered the full-backs. So Kolarov, who we know is defensively suspect, had Sterling covering him. Without that, then the left-sided centre back has to cover, which creates gaps in front of the goal. But with cover in front of the full backs, the centre halves could concentrate on the middle of the park and not have ot worry too much about the flanks. But we seemed to stop that a few games in and it was noticeable that Sterling was coming in-field a lot more. Kompany's absence masked that to a large degree but that, to me, is the source of the problem. Play Toure if you have to but with Fernando/Fernadinho/Delph and behind a three of Sterling, Navas and Silva/De Bruyne.

You don't have to go all-out defensive; just make sure all the bases are covered.

Brilliant post.

Its about balance and this is what we seem to be struggling with. I responded to someone earlier and made exactly the same point that picking our best 11 is different to picking our best team and in the example I gave I quoted I think we're better with Navas and Sterling becauee of the protection they offer our full backs than with Silva, KDB or Nasri out wide.

I suppose it all comes down to us constantly trying to squash square pegs into round holes in an effort to keep our biggest stars happy. It isn't lost on me that some of our most impressive displays have come when we've had injuries to our major players. Bayern, Roma & Sevilla away all spring to mind.

Another thing you wrote which rarely gets a mention is the space between our formation blocks. I actually prefer us to play a high line, but this can only work if we compress the space between defence and midfield and midfield and attack and if the players remain hard working and disciplined. Like I said, great observations in your post and you've said it better than I could.

 

[Phil1]

I suspect the answer lies somewhere in between the stats that show we're not that bad and our eyes, which often say the opposite.

Our supposedly shit defence has conceded 23 goals, which is only two more than the supposedly ultra-defensive rags. But the manner in which we've conceded some of those 23 has been infuriating to say the least. I think we owe a lot to Joe Hart to be honest. I've been very critical of parts of his game but you can't knock his shot-stopping.

Brendan Rodgers said any team can defend (or something to that effect). He couldn't actually manage it though but there's a trade-off between attack and defence. The more players you commit to going forward, the more open you're going to be at the back. It also works the other way of course. How many teams have come to the Etihad and been organised and compact, with two banks of 4 or a 4 and a 5, giving us no room to work in front of their goal? Whereas we go away from home and have 7 players up the field, leaving the centre-backs far too much space to cover. There's too much space between the lines which gives the opposition space to play in.

But we looked good at the start of the season and I don't think that Kompany being there was the whole answer. We played Navas & Sterling as wide men but both covered the full-backs. So Kolarov, who we know is defensively suspect, had Sterling covering him. Without that, then the left-sided centre back has to cover, which creates gaps in front of the goal. But with cover in front of the full backs, the centre halves could concentrate on the middle of the park and not have ot worry too much about the flanks. But we seemed to stop that a few games in and it was noticeable that Sterling was coming in-field a lot more. Kompany's absence masked that to a large degree but that, to me, is the source of the problem. Play Toure if you have to but with Fernando/Fernadinho/Delph and behind a three of Sterling, Navas and Silva/De Bruyne.

You don't have to go all-out defensive; just make sure all the bases are covered.

Agree with all of that.

 

[proachy]

I suspect the answer lies somewhere in between the stats that show we're not that bad and our eyes, which often say the opposite.

Our supposedly shit defence has conceded 23 goals, which is only two more than the supposedly ultra-defensive rags. But the manner in which we've conceded some of those 23 has been infuriating to say the least. I think we owe a lot to Joe Hart to be honest. I've been very critical of parts of his game but you can't knock his shot-stopping.

Brendan Rodgers said any team can defend (or something to that effect). He couldn't actually manage it though but there's a trade-off between attack and defence. The more players you commit to going forward, the more open you're going to be at the back. It also works the other way of course. How many teams have come to the Etihad and been organised and compact, with two banks of 4 or a 4 and a 5, giving us no room to work in front of their goal? Whereas we go away from home and have 7 players up the field, leaving the centre-backs far too much space to cover. There's too much space between the lines which gives the opposition space to play in.

But we looked good at the start of the season and I don't think that Kompany being there was the whole answer. We played Navas & Sterling as wide men but both covered the full-backs. So Kolarov, who we know is defensively suspect, had Sterling covering him. Without that, then the left-sided centre back has to cover, which creates gaps in front of the goal. But with cover in front of the full backs, the centre halves could concentrate on the middle of the park and not have ot worry too much about the flanks. But we seemed to stop that a few games in and it was noticeable that Sterling was coming in-field a lot more. Kompany's absence masked that to a large degree but that, to me, is the source of the problem. Play Toure if you have to but with Fernando/Fernadinho/Delph and behind a three of Sterling, Navas and Silva/De Bruyne.

You don't have to go all-out defensive; just make sure all the bases are covered.

Very good post, stopping that a few games in coincided with KDB joining us. Love him great player, but as has been said a few times, is it square pegs round holes?

 

[cleavers]

Unfortunately when KDB took a free kick he hit the only player in the wall

KdB hits the wall just as much if not more, and when he doesn't, he passes short to Navas or Silva who give it him back, and someone from the wall is 4 feet away.

Whoever coaches our free kicks needs sacking, its dreadful, week in week out, same with corners, worse with throw ins.

 

[Phil1]

KdB hits the wall just as much if not more, and when he doesn't, he passes short to Navas or Silva who give it him back, and someone from the wall is 4 feet away.

Whoever coaches our free kicks needs sacking, its dreadful, week in week out, same with corners, worse with throw ins.

The mods are nailing it tonight.