Whaley Bridge shooting

halfmist said:
A lot of the time you are just sat around waiting. Quite a few of the Jury are usually not interested in events and will just go with the flow. They are more likely to listen to the opinions of their fellow jury members than hold a significant grasp of events and usually sit silently during any discussions
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Beats working:-)
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
Ah ok, we’re at cross purposes a little bit. The shot in the back incident I was referring to was Tony Martin’s shooting of his intruder in the back in the 90s, which he was convicted of murder, before being lowered to manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility.

They were running away from him at the time, iirc.



This particular case, nothing is known other than what was described on here anecdotally. He might get off with it if the circumstances dictate. Time will tell, I was merely commenting on the anecdotal evidence on here.
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My apologies. I, too, seem to have been mixing the stories.

Thanks for clarifying it for me.

I realize things are different in the UK and USA, but it seems that apart from a Constitutional Right of ownership, the gun laws in the UK are very similar to Illinois’ very restrictive use laws.

No Open Carry.
Concealed Carry locations restrictive.
No Castle Doctrine. (Property protection)
No Stand Your Ground. (Retreat, if possible)
“Threat to life” use only.

Thus, if someone broke into my house and was walking out with a big screen TV, my options are physically trying to stop him/them while calling the police or letting them walk while calling the police. I’m not even supposed to initiate contact that might lead to a physical altercation in which gun use might be considered legal!

The upshot, of course, is that any insurance claim I make raises my rates forever, so it costs me to lose my property and to replace my property.

People are sick and tired of being preyed upon by scrotes and there’s almost no jury that would convict a homeowner who shoots someone in their home.

By the standards of many people, for whom a home invasion is extremely traumatic, once the scrote breaks in, they have given up their rights to be treated in any other way than with prejudice.

Now, running out of your front door* still shooting at them??? In some places that’s legal if they’re still on your property, but in Illinois it is most definitely not!

*And, it means you need more range time!!!
 
SilverFox2 said:
Could not agree more.

Given the unfortunate reaction of this normally law abiding farmer the apparent 3 or 4 robbers would have chosen a different person to steal from.
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The mistake they’ve made is repeatedly targeting him and he’s reached the end of his tether and the police have failed him.

Had they only done it once, they’d still be here. They got arrogant and have paid the ultimate price. Fuck them.

The debate about reasonable force will rumble on.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
My apologies. I, too, seem to have been mixing the stories.

Thanks for clarifying it for me.

I realize things are different in the UK and USA, but it seems that apart from a Constitutional Right of ownership, the gun laws in the UK are very similar to Illinois’ very restrictive use laws.

No Open Carry.
Concealed Carry locations restrictive.
No Castle Doctrine. (Property protection)
No Stand Your Ground. (Retreat, if possible)
“Threat to life” use only.

Thus, if someone broke into my house and was walking out with a big screen TV, my options are physically trying to stop him/them while calling the police or letting them walk while calling the police. I’m not even supposed to initiate contact that might lead to a physical altercation in which gun use might be considered legal!

The upshot, of course, is that any insurance claim I make raises my rates forever, so it costs me to lose my property and to replace my property.

People are sick and tired of being preyed upon by scrotes and there’s almost no jury that would convict a homeowner who shoots someone in their home.

By the standards of many people, for whom a home invasion is extremely traumatic, once the scrote breaks in, they have given up their rights to be treated in any other way than with prejudice.

Now, running out of your front door* still shooting at them??? In some places that’s legal if they’re still on your property, but in Illinois it is most definitely not!

*And, it means you need more range time!!!
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No worries.

My take on the anecdote is that he’s shot them as they’re about to enter his house again as he was waiting for them.

If that’s wrong, then again, all verdicts are possible.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
This is what my basis of premeditated murder came from. It’s a planned act.
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If he goes inside, at least he’ll be treated with respect and left alone.

BUT, no jury in their right mind should convict him. He was being terrorized and responded with a bit of old school rural “shock and awe.” Good for him!
 
Betterdeedthan red said:
My daughters know these lads.
They broke in the night before and apparently nicked 20k.
Went back the next day to nick his guns so they could Rob a farm not far away that has a big weed grow.
Only thing is they told every fucker they were going back.
The farmer was waiting shot one point blank in the face apparently.
But he's been charged with pre meditated murder.
He had been broken into 17 times in the last 2 years and told the police next time I will shoot them.
He's meant to be a really nice guy .
Little bastards got what they deserved
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Funny how there's always drugs involved
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
No worries.

My take on the anecdote is that he’s shot them as they’re about to enter his house again as he was waiting for them.

If that’s wrong, then again, all verdicts are possible.
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Hopefully, he shot him INSIDE the home and not outside, and in close enough proximity that the scrote (refuse to call him the victim) can reasonably considered a threat.

The age difference, let alone the 3 vs 1, makes the simple act of entering his home a threat to his life in my book. In fact, it’s too bad he only neutralized one of them, as I’m sure the others are models of society, too!

£20K, come back for the guns (and got one!!!) so they could rob a weed farm.

Nice boys, loved by everyone, never a minutes bother…my arse!
 
ChicagoBlue said:
Hopefully, he shot him INSIDE the home and not outside, and in close enough proximity that the scrote (refuse to call him the victim) can reasonably considered a threat.

The age difference, let alone the 3 vs 1, makes the simple act of entering his home a threat to his life in my book. In fact, it’s too bad he only neutralized one of them, as I’m sure the others are models of society, too!

£20K, come back for the guns (and got one!!!) so they could rob a weed farm.

Nice boys, loved by everyone, never a minutes bother…my arse!
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We’ll just have to see how it pans out. If he’s told the police that he’s going to shoot them and then done it, that is tough to ignore.

I think we’re all on the same page about not mourning his loss, but I haven’t heard him DJ, unlike Drone. ;-)
 
My take; if you illegally enter/break into someone's property with the intention to commit a criminal offence(s), you forfeit the right to complain about any action the resident in said property might take to defend themselves and their property. If you stay in your own home, the chances of you coming to harm from a pissed off homeowner are negligible. Simples.
 
Read the whole thread and being honest I’m struggling to have little or any sympathy for the two who got shot theft is a gamble you go intruding into someone’s home to take what’s not yours , what someone’s worked very hard to make an honest living only for someone low life to take it away also in some cases have your family threatened what will leave them traumatised for life. I think many have had enough of this.

My own late father was involved in a violent raid where he worked , tied up and gagged in the middle of the night , he was Manc old school bloke who didn’t tell the scum where the night safe was , this was after retirement as well, so that’s my take no respect for others in what they do , so no sympathy what it goes tits up.
 
A57 the snake said:
Read the whole thread and being honest I’m struggling to have little or any sympathy for the two who got shot theft is a gamble you go intruding into someone’s home to take what’s not yours , what someone’s worked very hard to make an honest living only for someone low life to take it away also in some cases have your family threatened what will leave them traumatised for life. I think many have had enough of this.

My own late father was involved in a violent raid where he worked , tied up and gagged in the middle of the night , he was Manc old school bloke who didn’t tell the scum where the night safe was , this was after retirement as well, so that’s my take no respect for others in what they do , so no sympathy what it goes tits up.
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Also it's very common for farmers to have firearms.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
By all means lobby to change the law, but you can’t make your own laws up when sitting on a jury.
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You can vote how you want on a jury. You just need the balls to be able to do it.
What would happen, for example, if the jury found someone not guilty contrary to what the law says?
Surely they would have to be released, otherwise there would be no point in having a jury in the first place.
 
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